JD 450C compression leak/smoke puffing out injector area

[DSK]

Greetings.

New to forum...and heavy equipment/diesels in general.

JD crawler 450C
Serial 285496T

I am trying to get an old crawler working again for some road repairs.
Unfortunately, it has not been well maintained; in fact was abandoned for years.

Upon starting it up late last year (first time in several years), I noted puffs of light smoke coming out from the place where the injector sets into the head. Only one of the injectors was having this problem. The puffs looked like they were in time with the associated cylinder moving, so I'm assuming an injector seal is leaking by.
I've checked briefly for similar posts on the subject, did not see any particularly addressing this. Could have missed of course.

I've looked at parts diagrams and guess that the lower carbon seals/washers have failed here.
Is this correct thinking?

Questions:

-How difficult is it to replace the lower seals on an injector in this situation? Diagrams show #12 and #13, 34764 and 48000 respectively, as "Washer, nozzle upper/lower"

-Is an expensive special tool truly necessary to pull the injector? What about for placing the seals?

-Anything else to do while here, as good practice?

I've piddled many hours with cars, trucks, atv's etc, but never with heavy machinery. However, I am certainly willing to learn.
Is this task within the scope of the backwoods mechanic?
I sense there is a lot of work ahead for this. The engine won't idle long, to begin with. I've been reading posts here about the dreaded inj pump seal failure, and fear the worst.
Rad leaks...last owner had green coolant in it...etc, etc.
But first I wanted to start with this obvious concern.
Many thanks to whoever is willing to assist.
This crawler actually belongs to a family member who is several hours travel away, and as I am trying to work on and off to get it back up, my posts/updates may be few & far between.
I know some forums are more active, or less active, than others. Thus, if I don't hear anything back after a while I shall bravely attempt the best diesel engine surgery I can, and report back with the likely less than satisfactory result, for the benefit of those novices, like myself, who peruse forums like these in the search of knowledge.
My advance thanks.
GJ

[Jim B]

Welcome to the boards.

Yes, it sounds like the injector nozzle seals are bad. You can pull them without a special tool. They may come out easily, or maybe not. In any case, the injector could be damaged from leaking or being pulled. Seals can be a pain to replace, there is a pilot tool they recommend to help get the new seal on. I would have a new injector in hand and plan on putting a new one in rather than hoping to pull it without damage, replacing the seals and reinstalling it.

The area needs to be clean before you start. You are going to need to clean the bore after you get the injector out of the head. You can buy those injectors many places. If you buy one cheap online find a place to have it pop tested to check the opening pressure or pay more and get it from an injection shop that will stand behind it.

Do you have a copy of the JD TM1102 Technical Manual?

[DSK]

Thanks very much for your response. It's good to have some confirmation as I'm not very knowledgeable with this subject.

It looks like I'll have to try to come up with a means of pulling them without damaging them, if possible...would prefer not to pay several hundred for a 1 time use tool, but don't want to destroy everything in the attempt either...

Do you have a method recommendation for cleaning the inj bore? Perhaps green scrub pad?
Do you think the seals may be stuck inside the bore, or would they more likely remain on the injector nozzle? I'm concerned of pieces falling down inside.

I do have access to the "aftermarket" parts, service and operators manuals. The service manual just wasn't quite as detailed as I would have liked, regarding pulling the injector and seal replacement. Any place I can find with folks sharing personal experiences is a great supplement to the manual, perhaps even of more value at times, I think.

Is it possible this seal leak problem is related to the idling trouble I'm having from the first post?
One thing at a time I suppose. Just thinking about it while on the subject.

Thanks once again.

[Jim B]

Tube cleaning brushes of the appropriate size are often used to clean the injector bores.

I have pulled many with rolling head pry bars. Some come out fine some are destroyed before they are out, that's why I want new ones in hand. Some guys have made their own tools to pull them.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

I find that about half the time, it's wrecked injector time. The other half of the time, they come out so fast I about fall over backwards. But I always have an full set of replacements on hand. Good ones, tested in the injector shop. I don't want to go thru all that work and wind up with different issues.....

And, the pump goes into the shop as well. Even if there wasn't any indication it needed to go in. Again, short circuit new issues as best I can.

Stan

[DSK]

Thanks for this info.
Not sure when I'll be able to attempt this, but I'll post an update to follow up.

[DSK]

Sure enough, the lower seal on the problem injector mentioned earlier was half gone.

1 of 4 inj did not survive extraction. I tried to break apart and remove the upper seal to spray lube down the bore; can't tell if any difference was made. In the end, much effort was required and the inj was destroyed. A new Stanadyne was ~$100 w shipping from a place called Scheid Diesel (but it said Made in China, which was disappointing).

After getting the new lower seals onto the injectors, I guessed they would not slide down the bores without trouble. The seals reminded me of steering rack and pinion shaft seals, which are known to require compression after putting on the shaft so they will fit back in place without damage. I didn't want to take chances, so I slid 5/16 or 3/8 (can't remember which) fuel line over the new seals and compressed with a hose clamp for about 30 min while getting ready. Not sure if this is necessary, but the method did seem to prove successful as they slid home with little effort, and I could have confidence I was not forcing anything and thus possibly returning to sq 1 with my original problem. Perhaps the special pilot tool is intended for this purpose, to compress the seals? Or just to get the seal on the inj end?

All injectors are back on and ready for air bleeding...new fuel filter and fuel tank supply line filter/strainer, which appeared partially blocked and could be contributing to original idle problem. I didn't know it existed until noticing it on the parts diagram. The old fuel was years old so out it came, about 10 g worth. I'm letting some vinegar set in the tank to clean it out but I'll be sure to get it all out of there prior to testing.

For future reference I will include parts # for items replaced:
-Fuel injector AR89564
-Fuel filter element (glass, on side of engine) AR50041
-Filter, tank outlet (strainer/filter) T42633
-Fan belt T24473
-Washer, nozzle lower (lower seal) R48000
-Washer, nozzle upper R34764
-Grommet (return line seal) R79605 (formerly T29539)

This should take care of the fuel system side for now; I'll likely start another thread soon on the cooling system which is the next project phase...
Thanks to all for the advice.
GJ