I am following your progress. Thanks for the updates
Scott
450C cracked trans. case. Advice on S/N and parts.
Great to hear scott. I have been taking pics throughout so if you need a hand let me know.
The 69 now has the 78 radiator and oil cooler in it. The radiator is identical but the oil cooler bottom hose was on the opposite side from top vs bottom. I had to cut the return line back in the frame then use a hydraulic hose to make the connection so it had some flex. The overall set is a little wider so I need to figure out a mounting solution. I notice the oil cooler said mode on it do for all I know it is aftermarket anyway.
She was smoking pretty bad and found a loose connection to the injector on cylinder 1. Hose clamp down low took care of that. I'm in the shakedown process now....still smoking a bit but seems to be everything burning off the manifold and block. Temp is steady so I'm jolly.
My tracks are frozen and don't seem to be breaking free which is making for the worst ride of my life.
Also noticed the 69 has the valve and plumbing all installed for the accessories. I'm thinking if I attempt mounting the 6 way blade on, I can use that valve for the tilt !
It just might happen !
The 69 now has the 78 radiator and oil cooler in it. The radiator is identical but the oil cooler bottom hose was on the opposite side from top vs bottom. I had to cut the return line back in the frame then use a hydraulic hose to make the connection so it had some flex. The overall set is a little wider so I need to figure out a mounting solution. I notice the oil cooler said mode on it do for all I know it is aftermarket anyway.
She was smoking pretty bad and found a loose connection to the injector on cylinder 1. Hose clamp down low took care of that. I'm in the shakedown process now....still smoking a bit but seems to be everything burning off the manifold and block. Temp is steady so I'm jolly.
My tracks are frozen and don't seem to be breaking free which is making for the worst ride of my life.
Also noticed the 69 has the valve and plumbing all installed for the accessories. I'm thinking if I attempt mounting the 6 way blade on, I can use that valve for the tilt !
It just might happen !
Moving forward
Hey Fellas !
Well my best buddy came down from the north country this weekend and the second set of hands allowed me to gain some insanely great ground. We were able to get the hydraulic tank, fuel tank, and battery box removed. Beer break and moved on to the loader assembly. WOW that was a job and boy was it heavy. I could barely move it with the backhoe 3/4 extended. It was a war. Managed to get it picked up and moved to the side, then dragged it out to a safe spot. So far it looks like the blade is going to mount up without any modifications. All mounts are in the same place and all the pins are the same diameter. Man oh man am i getting excited to just maybe have a 6way dozer in the next couple months. I have a feeling the metal lines may require some modifications for routing, but we'll see.
Here are some pics of the insanity that took place.
Just got the fuel tank and fender assemblies off together.
Loader assembly removed. WHAT A WAR.
From the back
Dragging the giant assembly away
Well my best buddy came down from the north country this weekend and the second set of hands allowed me to gain some insanely great ground. We were able to get the hydraulic tank, fuel tank, and battery box removed. Beer break and moved on to the loader assembly. WOW that was a job and boy was it heavy. I could barely move it with the backhoe 3/4 extended. It was a war. Managed to get it picked up and moved to the side, then dragged it out to a safe spot. So far it looks like the blade is going to mount up without any modifications. All mounts are in the same place and all the pins are the same diameter. Man oh man am i getting excited to just maybe have a 6way dozer in the next couple months. I have a feeling the metal lines may require some modifications for routing, but we'll see.
Here are some pics of the insanity that took place.
Just got the fuel tank and fender assemblies off together.
Loader assembly removed. WHAT A WAR.
From the back
Dragging the giant assembly away
-
JWB Contracting
- 2010 crawler
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:08 pm
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Loader to dozer conversion
My dad and I did a conversion a few months ago. We wrecked a 350C widepad 6 way dozer machine last summer as we needed the reverser and rear end for one of our working machines.
We paid good money for the machine we so the only way to come out on it was to buy a cheap loader machine and put the dozer and accessories on it.
I found a very clean 350B needing a little bit of attention. Just a few tips-
Use the dozer hydraulic tank and plumbing, the t handle is a nice feature
Make sure your dozer is well mounted to the crawler, meaning the front and rear pins. Get some oversize pins made if necessary. You can tighten it up with a welder but I would not recommend it.
Use a dozer hydraulic pump, the loader pump puts out too much volume which makes the dozer controls jerky.
Remove the sprocket weights if you have them.
If your putting a canopy on it, you may need to build the front mount which is welded to the frame sections. Easier to do before you install the dozer
Check all the frame, transmission and cross member bolts while you have it torn down
Good luck, you have got a full 2 man day left to reassemble at a minimum if all goes well.
We paid good money for the machine we so the only way to come out on it was to buy a cheap loader machine and put the dozer and accessories on it.
I found a very clean 350B needing a little bit of attention. Just a few tips-
Use the dozer hydraulic tank and plumbing, the t handle is a nice feature
Make sure your dozer is well mounted to the crawler, meaning the front and rear pins. Get some oversize pins made if necessary. You can tighten it up with a welder but I would not recommend it.
Use a dozer hydraulic pump, the loader pump puts out too much volume which makes the dozer controls jerky.
Remove the sprocket weights if you have them.
If your putting a canopy on it, you may need to build the front mount which is welded to the frame sections. Easier to do before you install the dozer
Check all the frame, transmission and cross member bolts while you have it torn down
Good luck, you have got a full 2 man day left to reassemble at a minimum if all goes well.
Jason Benesch
John Deere 420, 430, 440 & 350C With 3 Point Hitch
John Deere 400G With Winch
John Deere 2010 Crawler Dozer
John Deere 420, 430, 435 & 440 Wheel Tractors
John Deere 420, 430, 440 & 350C With 3 Point Hitch
John Deere 400G With Winch
John Deere 2010 Crawler Dozer
John Deere 420, 430, 435 & 440 Wheel Tractors
Thank you Jason
Jason !
I was really starting to think I was the only one attempting this job. Honestly so far it has been half as bad as I was expecting. Having already taken down the blade machine probably made my confidence and ability that much stronger and efficient.
I had planned for the T control after looking over both setups this weekend.
Awesome info about the pump and thank you for that....I would've never touched it.
The pins from both machines are in awesome shape, especially the loader because it was recently rebuilt from what I can see and the under carriage is mint.
I will definitely check all fasteners while in there as well. Noticed my brake is frozen up so I'm guessing it's just something in the pedal assembly....or hoping at least.
I'm thinking of taking a Friday off and hammering this out over 3 days once the summer settles. I'm sure there will be some bumps.....always is.
Last thing to play with is if the blocks/heads/etc are the same then I would like to mount the turbo from the 78 onto the 69
I was really starting to think I was the only one attempting this job. Honestly so far it has been half as bad as I was expecting. Having already taken down the blade machine probably made my confidence and ability that much stronger and efficient.
I had planned for the T control after looking over both setups this weekend.
Awesome info about the pump and thank you for that....I would've never touched it.
The pins from both machines are in awesome shape, especially the loader because it was recently rebuilt from what I can see and the under carriage is mint.
I will definitely check all fasteners while in there as well. Noticed my brake is frozen up so I'm guessing it's just something in the pedal assembly....or hoping at least.
I'm thinking of taking a Friday off and hammering this out over 3 days once the summer settles. I'm sure there will be some bumps.....always is.
Last thing to play with is if the blocks/heads/etc are the same then I would like to mount the turbo from the 78 onto the 69
Thank you Jason
Double post...punishment for typing this on my phone.
Fun begins
Wow, of course I was hoping for a smooth transition and it was actually going great. I took it slow over the last couple days and my buddy came down to help with the conversion.
I got the firewall off the 78 and moved over to the 69.
I like the gauge cluster and wiring of the 78 much better so I decided to migrate the wiring too. Most of it was plug and play pretty easy, but all of the sensors on the 69 were electric as opposed to direct like the oil pressure for example. So I changed that out from the 78 as well.
I also migrated the fuel filter and line setup from the 78. Now it matches the setup on my 510 loader backhoe so I can keep a stock of filters.
While I was working on the wiring I had my buddy look into the stuck brake issue. We eventually ended up pulling the steering case covers and that's when the fun began. The return springs were broken and one side actually showed signs of rust. OH BOY. Well i'm thinking this is a dry clutch system based on age and the fact that the covers have the secondary smaller covers installed too. There looked to be about 2 to 3 gallons of water in one side and about 2 to 3 gallons of water & oil in the other side. I'm pretty much in a panic about that. I think i'm going to take the chance of rinsing everything with mineral spirits and let it dry out. That was a recommendation from the local dealer. I know the clutches were relatively new, but into the unknown I travel.
The covers clearly were not sealed properly so that was kind of upsetting....but if it wasn't for the stuck break who knows if i would've even checked.
Oh don't worry it gets worse......
Since we were stuck having to order the springs for the brake, I decided to put the lift cylinder assembly on, and then the blade.
That was until I noticed the cross member was welded to the rail !!!
So, I wouldn't be able to move it back like it needs to be for the bucket to blade conversion. It was welded hard...front, back, bolts, and also plated. That is a major set back and really dragged the project down for me.
I was going to plasma gouge and cut it out, but it would be a total loss especially since the bolts and holes were welded up.
So....we began disassembling the 78 so we can beg, borrow, and steal the side rail and cross member from that.
He definitely deserved a break after this weekend. Hard to find a friend that will drop everything and bust @ss for you no questions asked.
So, i'm faced with trying to get the sproket out at the moment. I had thought I could do it with the track on, as I had done it previously to my 78 but I think the tracks are so frozen that I can't get the proper angle.
I heated that pin with oxy/ace torch and beat it relentlessly but still couldn't get the master link out. Hoping I can rent or borrow a press from the local dealer.
That's the update so far everyone. Hope everyone else's projects are going well !!
I got the firewall off the 78 and moved over to the 69.
I like the gauge cluster and wiring of the 78 much better so I decided to migrate the wiring too. Most of it was plug and play pretty easy, but all of the sensors on the 69 were electric as opposed to direct like the oil pressure for example. So I changed that out from the 78 as well.
I also migrated the fuel filter and line setup from the 78. Now it matches the setup on my 510 loader backhoe so I can keep a stock of filters.
While I was working on the wiring I had my buddy look into the stuck brake issue. We eventually ended up pulling the steering case covers and that's when the fun began. The return springs were broken and one side actually showed signs of rust. OH BOY. Well i'm thinking this is a dry clutch system based on age and the fact that the covers have the secondary smaller covers installed too. There looked to be about 2 to 3 gallons of water in one side and about 2 to 3 gallons of water & oil in the other side. I'm pretty much in a panic about that. I think i'm going to take the chance of rinsing everything with mineral spirits and let it dry out. That was a recommendation from the local dealer. I know the clutches were relatively new, but into the unknown I travel.
The covers clearly were not sealed properly so that was kind of upsetting....but if it wasn't for the stuck break who knows if i would've even checked.
Oh don't worry it gets worse......
Since we were stuck having to order the springs for the brake, I decided to put the lift cylinder assembly on, and then the blade.
That was until I noticed the cross member was welded to the rail !!!
So, I wouldn't be able to move it back like it needs to be for the bucket to blade conversion. It was welded hard...front, back, bolts, and also plated. That is a major set back and really dragged the project down for me.
I was going to plasma gouge and cut it out, but it would be a total loss especially since the bolts and holes were welded up.
So....we began disassembling the 78 so we can beg, borrow, and steal the side rail and cross member from that.
He definitely deserved a break after this weekend. Hard to find a friend that will drop everything and bust @ss for you no questions asked.
So, i'm faced with trying to get the sproket out at the moment. I had thought I could do it with the track on, as I had done it previously to my 78 but I think the tracks are so frozen that I can't get the proper angle.
I heated that pin with oxy/ace torch and beat it relentlessly but still couldn't get the master link out. Hoping I can rent or borrow a press from the local dealer.
That's the update so far everyone. Hope everyone else's projects are going well !!
450 project
Hi , I was wondering when you would notice the welded frame and the 3" difference between a loader and a dozer. you have done a lot of work..
now lets take some time to think about your situation what still needs to be done and what you get for your effort.
#1. now that you have the 450C totally stripped and down to the tranny, just maybe fixing the tranny case and putting together would work.
for one thing it is a far superior dozer with the wet clutches, stronger front crossmember and stronger motor..
the things that still need to be done are huge.
1. you will need the 450C track frame as the 450B is welded as you stated.
2. you will need to unbolt both track frames from the rear round crossmember and slide them out together as they are connected by the welded front crossmember.so you can't do one at a time because you can't slide them off the round rear because they are welded in the front.
3. then slide the 450c track frames and front crossmember into place for the correct blade spacing.
4. the 450C turbo motor has bigger connecting rods and bigger wrist pins in the piston to handle the higher compression,, and usually non-turbo motors not designed for a turbo have a higher static compression then a turbo motor does... so when you add a turbo it has even more compression then the stock 450C motor... end result good power for a short time. too much compression and not strong enough parts.. just my 2 cents.
plus throw in the water problems for the steering clutches... I am not criticizing you. I respect how hard you have worked.. I am just saying as an older man and having done this a lot and not having the energy that you have,, just take some time to think on your next move,,step away from the project and time will give you your best choice.
I am doing the same thing right now as you are only I am making a 450C loader into a 450C dozer all angle blade.I would show you how I solved the spacing problem but I don't know how to load the pictures..
I feel your struggle.. Oh I almost forgot.. If you have a welder friend they have special pin boring rods... you blow a hole down the center of the master pin... let it cool and you can drive it out with a 5lb hammer and a punch.. if you can't find one... take an acetylene torch and cut into the center of the master pin atleast 1 1/2"s on each end... let it cool then heat the link only and drive with big hammer and pin driver( pin driver is just a homemade punch with handle so as not to smash someones hand and big hammer means atleast 25-30lb.. not 8 or ten... ofcourse you will have to buy new master pins...
great job and great photos,, best of luck Mark.
now lets take some time to think about your situation what still needs to be done and what you get for your effort.
#1. now that you have the 450C totally stripped and down to the tranny, just maybe fixing the tranny case and putting together would work.
for one thing it is a far superior dozer with the wet clutches, stronger front crossmember and stronger motor..
the things that still need to be done are huge.
1. you will need the 450C track frame as the 450B is welded as you stated.
2. you will need to unbolt both track frames from the rear round crossmember and slide them out together as they are connected by the welded front crossmember.so you can't do one at a time because you can't slide them off the round rear because they are welded in the front.
3. then slide the 450c track frames and front crossmember into place for the correct blade spacing.
4. the 450C turbo motor has bigger connecting rods and bigger wrist pins in the piston to handle the higher compression,, and usually non-turbo motors not designed for a turbo have a higher static compression then a turbo motor does... so when you add a turbo it has even more compression then the stock 450C motor... end result good power for a short time. too much compression and not strong enough parts.. just my 2 cents.
plus throw in the water problems for the steering clutches... I am not criticizing you. I respect how hard you have worked.. I am just saying as an older man and having done this a lot and not having the energy that you have,, just take some time to think on your next move,,step away from the project and time will give you your best choice.
I am doing the same thing right now as you are only I am making a 450C loader into a 450C dozer all angle blade.I would show you how I solved the spacing problem but I don't know how to load the pictures..
I feel your struggle.. Oh I almost forgot.. If you have a welder friend they have special pin boring rods... you blow a hole down the center of the master pin... let it cool and you can drive it out with a 5lb hammer and a punch.. if you can't find one... take an acetylene torch and cut into the center of the master pin atleast 1 1/2"s on each end... let it cool then heat the link only and drive with big hammer and pin driver( pin driver is just a homemade punch with handle so as not to smash someones hand and big hammer means atleast 25-30lb.. not 8 or ten... ofcourse you will have to buy new master pins...
great job and great photos,, best of luck Mark.
350 loader,350c dozer winch and arch,450c winch and arch,450e winch and arch,D37p komatsu lgp dozer,D85 Komatsu dozer,D8k Caterpillar.
Re: 450 project
Hi Mark-pondhogvt wrote: I would show you how I solved the spacing problem but I don't know how to load the pictures.. best of luck Mark.
The photos have to be uploaded to a third party media/photo sharing site such as Photobucket and then linked from this site using the "img" function. I created a thread with step by step instructions you can read- if you have basic knowledge of websites it shouldn't be too bad:
http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=3690
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment
BACK INTO IT !!!!
PonghogVT, thanks so much for all the info.
I sure did step back from the project without choice. What a winter. This is the first weekend I've gotten to even look at the dozer.
It looks like I didn't post any of my progress before winter. For that I apologize but things went extremely smooth considering the frame weld and what not. I declared the welded part a total loss and ended up cutting it off for scrap. It worked out much better than expect. Then I got the rest of it up in the air, good and steady.
I decided to continue with the project as is since I have a good frame, motor and trans on the 69 dozer. It is already up in the air and I know the mill and trans are good.
I'll repost some pics in a little bit once I get them off my phone.
The big question now is, can I convert the 69 over to the 78's wet clutch drive system? From what I can tell, if I use all of the 78's steering parts(drive shafts, steering boxes, clutch packs, brake system, and hydraulic valving on the ring gear cover it will actually work.
Everything seems to bolt up no problem until I get to the pinion for the finals. They are quite a bit different unless of course I use the 78's finals and pinion i'll be set.
Gonna have a new machine here soon!!! LOL
Where is the best place to get aftermarket steering clutches/plates?
PonghogVT, thanks so much for all the info.
I sure did step back from the project without choice. What a winter. This is the first weekend I've gotten to even look at the dozer.
It looks like I didn't post any of my progress before winter. For that I apologize but things went extremely smooth considering the frame weld and what not. I declared the welded part a total loss and ended up cutting it off for scrap. It worked out much better than expect. Then I got the rest of it up in the air, good and steady.
I decided to continue with the project as is since I have a good frame, motor and trans on the 69 dozer. It is already up in the air and I know the mill and trans are good.
I'll repost some pics in a little bit once I get them off my phone.
The big question now is, can I convert the 69 over to the 78's wet clutch drive system? From what I can tell, if I use all of the 78's steering parts(drive shafts, steering boxes, clutch packs, brake system, and hydraulic valving on the ring gear cover it will actually work.
Everything seems to bolt up no problem until I get to the pinion for the finals. They are quite a bit different unless of course I use the 78's finals and pinion i'll be set.
Gonna have a new machine here soon!!! LOL
Where is the best place to get aftermarket steering clutches/plates?
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