[/img]Finally! here is Berta
doing some heavy lifting a couple of months ago,isn`t she ugly?
Thank you jdemaris for the tip, tried to do the same thing using MSN, but my computer "jammed" all the time, i had to reboot it and got nowhere.
JD 450 in Sweden
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jdemaris
All the Bosch's came from the same origin. Just turned into a legal mess down the road. American Bosch (formerly AMBAC), Joseph Bosch, Charles A. Vandervell (CAV), Simms, Lucas, ConDiesel, and Rotodiesel are all tied together.digitup2 wrote:Just so you know Bosch and Robert Bosch are two different entities as well .Robert Bosch is North American Market injector system components .Bosch is European built systems .
.The big problem was typically it took John Deere five years to figure out that there was a problem .So you sure never bought the first of the new model upgrade I bought several used units then and the previous owners would mention they would trade the new crawler for the old one back .It was well known that the E in 450E was for Excuses Deere didn't make these for long for a good reason although the engine was a great starter if you got the right one .Digitup.
Robert Bosch started as a German magneto company. Bosch built a plant in the USA around 1920. During World War II, the US Federal government took control of Bosch in the US and siezed it's overseas assets that directly related to the USA operation. Became American-Bosch-ARMA in 1949. CAV and Robert Bosch merged in 1931. Lucas bought out Bosch's interest in 1937. Lucas Diesel was bought by Delphi in 2000. Simms was bought by Lucas in 1968.
As far as John Deere goes - the 1010 and 2010 tractors were the first Deeres to use a rotary injection pump. That pump was an invention of a guy from Long Island, New York - Vernon Roosa. When Roosa's little rotary pump was new - his only competition was the American Bosch rotary - that no longer had any European ties.
In 1953, rights to copy Roosa's rotary pump were sold to CAV in Great Britain. After that, rotary pumps, regardless if called Bosch, Lucas, CAV, Diesel Kiki, Nippo VE, or Rotodiesel - are all from the original license.
With Deere - the only rotaries I've seen - are the original Stanadyne/Roosamaster models - or the Lucas/Rotodiesel/CAV pumps were are all close to the same with different name tags.
With Deere and cold starting problems? Haven't seen one yet that was caused by the pump/injection design. All the fixes that worked were related to engine hard-parts - mostly valves and pistons. With our stuff (USA), the C crawlers were the absolute worst - and after that we had few problems. With the green farm tractors - the 40 series were the worst. Didn't matter if they had Roosamaster or CAV/Lucas pumps. In other countries - I have no idea of what went on.
There was a time when we had two brand new 350Cs. One started great, and one started poorly. Deere Co. flew in two engineers to our shop in New York. We worked together, trying to swap parts between the two 350Cs - so see if we could isolate which parts made the difference. We swapped heads, injection pumps, cams, pistons, etc. No matter what we did - the one that started bad kept starting bad - and the one that started good kept starting good. We did this "swap" experiment with some 450Cs also.
Hello, now i have gotten the steering clutches out of the machine and taken them apart.
The left hand side that would not disengage looked much better, like all the parts had been replaced and not used much after that, but the clutch and steel disc pack is too thick, maybe from rust, i don`t know yet but that is the reason it would not work, that is apparent.
The right hand side that worked didn`t look so good, mostly i think because the large top cover had no gasket. The clutch discs, throw out bearing and brake return springs will have to be replaced.
Brake bands on both sides propably should be replaced to.
In the picture you can see one clutch disc from the right and left side, one is all made of "clutch material" the other is metal with the clutch material on it.
The metal one was on the right hand side, is that an older version?
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The left hand side that would not disengage looked much better, like all the parts had been replaced and not used much after that, but the clutch and steel disc pack is too thick, maybe from rust, i don`t know yet but that is the reason it would not work, that is apparent.
The right hand side that worked didn`t look so good, mostly i think because the large top cover had no gasket. The clutch discs, throw out bearing and brake return springs will have to be replaced.
Brake bands on both sides propably should be replaced to.
In the picture you can see one clutch disc from the right and left side, one is all made of "clutch material" the other is metal with the clutch material on it.
The metal one was on the right hand side, is that an older version?
[/img]Ulf the Swede
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jdemaris
No. Metal disks were the heavy duty option and cost more. Now it is all Deere will sell you. They are still available from Deere and aftermarket. $35 aftermarket, and over $100 each from Deere. Some other tractor companies made them standard equipment, but with Deere, it was a high-priced option until recently.D557017 wrote:In the picture you can see one clutch disc from the right and left side, one is all made of "clutch material" the other is metal with the clutch material on it.
The metal one was on the right hand side, is that an older version?
Allis Chalmers started out with fiber disks in the H3/HD3/H4/HD4s series and then changed over to metal disks only. That is the only replacement disk Allis Gleaner will now sell you.
One advantage to the metal disks is they don't soak up water or oil and don't get stuck as easy.
T44129 is the original Deere bi-metalllic disk and usually cost $33-$40 each. Deere now subs it to a new metal disk - # T211832.
The standard fiber disk is T20716
Same deal with the 350 crawlers - just different part #s.
Hello jdemaris, by the prices it sounds like the aftermarket would be preferable for me.
Are the aftermarket clutchdiscs metallic to, or do they have both kinds?
Can the other parts i need be found on the aftermarket to?
(brakebands, throwout bearing, brake return springs, gaskets etc.)
Could you recommend me a company that might exist in Europe?
Thank you
Are the aftermarket clutchdiscs metallic to, or do they have both kinds?
Can the other parts i need be found on the aftermarket to?
(brakebands, throwout bearing, brake return springs, gaskets etc.)
Could you recommend me a company that might exist in Europe?
Thank you
Ulf the Swede
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jdemaris
Aftermarket disks are available both ways - fiber and metallic.D557017 wrote:Hello jdemaris, by the prices it sounds like the aftermarket would be preferable for me.
Are the aftermarket clutchdiscs metallic to, or do they have both kinds?
Can the other parts i need be found on the aftermarket to?
(brakebands, throwout bearing, brake return springs, gaskets etc.)
Could you recommend me a company that might exist in Europe?
Thank you
Lavoy (the guy that owns this Website) can probably sell you anything you need unless shipping overseas is a big issue. I have no idea what's available local to you.
Status report:
I have spent quite a few hours cleaning, sandpapering and examening all the parts, and found that for example the right hand clutch discs actually looked allright after all, the thickness is whitin specifications too.
I took the brakes to a local brake manufacturer, and they will restore them with new brake bands, should be done in a few weeks.
But still i need some other parts, so i looked them up in my old sparepartsbook that came with the machine.
I then called the JD tractor/parts company that i contacted when i was looking for engine parts, then, they would hardly talk to me, but now they apparently have a new spare parts guy because i was able to order parts and he was even nice to me
So i did order some parts, mostly for the rusted right hand side:
-The 3 brake band return springs
-The adjusting cover gaskets
-The track tensioner seals for both sides
-One clutch throw out bearing
-2 metal discs that go between the clutch discs, because they were warped
Some parts though, were not available any more, like the covers over the track tensioning springs T20873T(the covers are rusty) , gaskets for the big clutch housing covers T20735T, but worst, the steering presssure plate springs T25049T, and one of mine are broken so i really need springs for one side.
I talked to a engine builder, hoping to find valvesprings that would be close enough to fit my clutch, but they were all either to short, to large in diameter or to weak.
I have a friend of a friend that knows someone who works in a spring factory, but i dont know what is possible to come up with trough him yet.
I have spent quite a few hours cleaning, sandpapering and examening all the parts, and found that for example the right hand clutch discs actually looked allright after all, the thickness is whitin specifications too.
I took the brakes to a local brake manufacturer, and they will restore them with new brake bands, should be done in a few weeks.
But still i need some other parts, so i looked them up in my old sparepartsbook that came with the machine.
I then called the JD tractor/parts company that i contacted when i was looking for engine parts, then, they would hardly talk to me, but now they apparently have a new spare parts guy because i was able to order parts and he was even nice to me
So i did order some parts, mostly for the rusted right hand side:
-The 3 brake band return springs
-The adjusting cover gaskets
-The track tensioner seals for both sides
-One clutch throw out bearing
-2 metal discs that go between the clutch discs, because they were warped
Some parts though, were not available any more, like the covers over the track tensioning springs T20873T(the covers are rusty) , gaskets for the big clutch housing covers T20735T, but worst, the steering presssure plate springs T25049T, and one of mine are broken so i really need springs for one side.
I talked to a engine builder, hoping to find valvesprings that would be close enough to fit my clutch, but they were all either to short, to large in diameter or to weak.
I have a friend of a friend that knows someone who works in a spring factory, but i dont know what is possible to come up with trough him yet.
Ulf the Swede
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jdemaris
You'd be better off with the newer style seals used in the 450Cs. They hold much better in a worn adjuster cylinder. Very easy to cut the groove a little wider in the piston to let them fit. It was standard procedure for any 350 or 450 we fixed in our shop.D557017 wrote: -The track tensioner seals for both sides
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the steering presssure plate springs T25049T, and one of mine are broken so i really need springs for one side.
Those clutch pressure-plate springs are available. You just have to contact a pressure-plate rebuild shop and see if you can get them to sell you a few springs. Probably a waste of time and money though. The original pressure-plate that Deere used was made by Rockford - and Rockford went out of business. Then Deere used Dana plates as replacements. If you have and old original Rockford, then you have the correct spring part #. If your's was fixed in the past, it will likely have a Dana plate and the springs are different. Deere # T44168. with .162” wire-diam. 1” OD, 2.66” free length, 9 coils, spring rate - 230
LBF/inch, solid length 1.428” Still available from Deere.
Long story short - rebuilt pressure plates are available all over the place, starting at $70 with trade-in. Just look for a rebuilt AT18416 pressure -plate.
I already ordered the track tensioning seals but hopefully i can make do with the original type.
My springs are a little less then 2 inches long when they are out of the pressure plate, so i guess that would make the pressure plates Rockford?
About pressure plates being available all over the place, well that might be the case in the USA but unless the same plates are used for something else, i dont think they are all that common in Sweden.
I know of only one other old JD 450 here.
My springs are a little less then 2 inches long when they are out of the pressure plate, so i guess that would make the pressure plates Rockford?
About pressure plates being available all over the place, well that might be the case in the USA but unless the same plates are used for something else, i dont think they are all that common in Sweden.
I know of only one other old JD 450 here.
Ulf the Swede
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jdemaris
That is the common problem of having a machine that is NOT common where you live. I just had to order some parts for and older Stihl chainsaw from a guy in West Germany since the parts are not sold in the US. Also, just ordered a new carburetor from England for my International Harvesster tractor/backhoe. That, because it uses a British Zenith VN carb - not related to Zenith in the USA. Only common overseas.D557017 wrote:
About pressure plates being available all over the place, well that might be the case in the USA but unless the same plates are used for something else, i dont think they are all that common in Sweden.
I know of only one other old JD 450 here.
I know next to nothing about Sweden, except my old girlfriend used to live there. If you can't find there, seems you'll have to pay extra shipping and buy from the US? Try Lavoy for one. Here are few other places near me that have them.
P & D Mechanical 6699 Rt. 31 Cicero, NY 13039 phone: 315-288-5307
Deere AT18416-R rebuilt pressure plate - $70 with exchange
I searched from a German parts website - and every reference it gave me is in the USA. Here's a big list, from Germany, for the pressure plates in the USA.
http://www.machinery-trader.de/listings ... um=AT18416
http://www.pdmechanical.com/details.asp?key=11635
Depending on weight, overseas shipping is not that bad. As long as I keep it to 20 lbs, they will go in a flat rate box for $30-$50 depending on large or small box, and probably there in a week.
I would not just throw whatever spring looks close in there, it is just asking for trouble, unless you like pulling final drives. I sell new pressure plates, depending on core charge and return freight, it probably is not feasible for you to consider a rebuilt.
Lavoy
I would not just throw whatever spring looks close in there, it is just asking for trouble, unless you like pulling final drives. I sell new pressure plates, depending on core charge and return freight, it probably is not feasible for you to consider a rebuilt.
Lavoy
Hello and thank you for your answers.
The only other JD 450 i know in sweden is the one that Lupusrex mentioned more then a year ago in this tread, have not heard from him in quite a while though, wonder if he bought it?
I am not planning to throw just any springs in there, i know what dimensions and spring rates the original springs have.
This is the spring factory i talked about, located 80 kilometers from me:
http://www.lesjoforsab.com/default-uk.asp
Lavoy, i don`t want to buy a complete pressureplate if i can avoid it, are by any chance just the springs available from you?
The only other JD 450 i know in sweden is the one that Lupusrex mentioned more then a year ago in this tread, have not heard from him in quite a while though, wonder if he bought it?
I am not planning to throw just any springs in there, i know what dimensions and spring rates the original springs have.
This is the spring factory i talked about, located 80 kilometers from me:
http://www.lesjoforsab.com/default-uk.asp
Lavoy, i don`t want to buy a complete pressureplate if i can avoid it, are by any chance just the springs available from you?
Ulf the Swede
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