JD450 transmission question

[sofmatchstaff]

First post on the site, and I'm liking this place already.

JD450 Loader serial # data plate right of panel "SNE7450002026U"

Can someone tell me where the suction intake for the transmission pump oil supply is located? I have no pressure or volume at any port or at the filter, and cant see any obvious references to a tube or port in the parts manuals I have. All the guys at the JD dealer here have no experience on my old iron, so no help there.

There is a hole in the front casing top left about 1" dia. but no tubing to it.

How low on oil must the trans be to lose its suction to the pump on an up hill slope??

thanks for any info and help.

[Tigerhaze]

Welcome to the board.

I cannot directly answer most of your questions but can say that if you lost HLR pressure solely due to pump suction on a slope that you had very little Hygard left in the HLR. I had the unfortunate opportunity to lose my HLR fluid due to a leak and it was almost gone when it started "sucking wind".

Before you go that route, have you confirmed that the HLR disconnect lever has not been engaged? If so I don't believe you would have HLR pressure.

[sofmatchstaff]

A little history, I got this 450 as a non running lot lizard in the 80's and brought it back to life. Rebuilt the motor, painted it up and put it to use on the range. Over the years I've put a lot of work and misc pieces into it and kept it useful, clutch, starter, left track idler, injection pump overhaul, transmission pump and front input shaft bearing and the std hyd hoses. ect...

Its been sitting for a couple years after it quit moving while building berms, I was up a 30deg pile dumping a bucket to raise the height, and it just stopped moving. This was on the maiden voyage after the repair of the trans pump and bearing replacement, I figured I messed up big time on some procedure and didnt have the time or inclination to do it all over again.

I now have the trans top cover off and box drained, and cant see any obvious damage or loose stuff(magnetic probed it).. I got 5gal oil, clean, no metal chips or other contaminants when I drained it, hence the minimum oil level question. Prior to the last major dis-assembly, the trans pressure gauge read just below the "N" ... after the repair it was at the "H" level on the gauge. Shifting was positive. I think? that the oil level was not what it should have been, like maybe 3gal low?? Not sure if the dipstick was lying or I didnt read it right when I filled it.

The top goes back on tomorrow and it gets a full 8 gal of 303, then I get to see if it will fire up. I cranked it over to see if the input shaft was turning, and it was fine. Hope it was error in the oil dept and not something else.....

[LeonardL]

I wasn't real sure at first what you were asking but now you've cleared that up. However I am a little thick headed sometimes and things have a hard time getting through. That being said... I would check the fluid capacity for your machine. I think if memory serves it is more than eight gallons. Here again I have slept sense I last filled one of these machines. I do remember you can get a false reading on the dipstick if you aren't careful. Partly because of all the chambers it has to fill from the one entry point. Once everything has settled to where it belongs you may well have to add more oil. Be sure you check it with the dip stick unscrewed. Set it down on top of the threads to get a check on the fluid level. If you screw the cap and dip stick back on, it will show having more fluid in it than there is. Check your manual because I am a little cloudy here and it has been a long time since I last serviced a 450. But, I would say your issue lies with lack of enough oil. Hope you sort this out... and good luck.

[sofmatchstaff]

All back together and full of oil, started fine(!!) after years of sitting, and still no pressure or movement.

I read about 30 pages of posts before I posted and found info about the dipsticks proper use and the 8gal spec for trans oil. So your memory is accurate. I'm not sure where to start now, I tried shifting the main box thru 1st to 4th with no clutch manipulation and it shifted thru with ease and not so much as a grumble from the gears meshing. I remember having to de-clutch all the way before and still had some gear grumbling when selecting in the 4 speed box .

I am still very curious as to where the suction port for the pump is, and how big it is? I read one post concerning the clutch disc center failing, I guess I'll have to get the ole Proctoscope out(dont ask) and see what I can see....

[NWJD fan]

A few years back I had my 450C out in the back 40 just returning it to its parking spot when it just coasted to a stop with the gentlest declutch ever. No bad noise or lurch. I pulled the seat and looked for obvious issues with linkage, tried all gear combinations, nothing. Came back the next day and tried it again and away it went, worked fine pushed about 50 feet of snow then same thing, gentle stop and no coming back. My mechanic friend who worked at the local JD dealership for 30+ years came out and took a look at it and initially thought an adjustment in the interconnect linkage between the engine clutch and the hydraulic control for the transmission was way out of whack then discovered a broken cast bell crank inside the bell housing accessed through the adjustment plug on the bell hosing. He managed to poke it into engaged position and drive the machine +/- half mile to where it could be loaded on a truck and hauled into his shop where he pulled the engine and replaced the offending piece. Not long before the engine had been removed for something I no longer remember and he said the piece may have been damaged during engine reinstallation.

[sofmatchstaff]

Well, I decided to mess with the loader today, changed the FF"s and fired it up and let it run up to temp. Sitting in the seat(a 2x4) still not moving, and no pressure on the gauge, when I thought I'd add some more tranny oil. I figured I'd bring the level up as far as it took to get the pump to pick it up, and if it worked I could always drain it back to the proper level.

I set the throttle just off idle and let her run, went back after a quick water break and the gauge looked like it had moved, but just barely. Gave it some throttle and up it came, followed the throttle up and down on the gauge. Had to move a bunch of crap away and remove the boom stanchions before I tried the big moment, It groaned and bogged down and then broke loose and moved for the first time in YEARS.

It irritates the helllll out of me to think I could have done this a long time ago and would have save me countless hours of work, transport time, and $$$ I literally built a gas powered winch, from a M561 Gamma Goat winch and a dishwasher gear reduction angle drive, powered by a Kohler 6HP motor to get the loader winched into my backyard.(picture Rube Goldberg ugly).....

I guess the lesson is always check the simple stuff first, and it wouldnt have taken years to make me feel like a NitWit, a happy one today anyhow..
Now its lube it up change a bucket tilt hose and get it out off my backyard. I'll run it for an hour or so and then check and adjust the tranny oil level.

[LeonardL]

I'm glad you have this thing going. Even as a mechanic, I learned the hard way that the simple things are the most overlooked. So don't feel too bad.

I am however more impressed with the winch you built. I would like to see a picture of that. I can honestly say I have never heard of using anything out of a dish washer to move a piece of equipment.

[sofmatchstaff]

I knew things were going to good this last week, I got all the brake parts for the trailer, a super deal, $120 an axle for bearings, seals and backing plates complete, the ccw renewal arrived, the NFA paperwork showed up, got the bucket tilt hoses screwed together and installed for the cost of the hose, then the kicker....

I started the loader and moved it forward and pulled in a little left rudder, NO reaction, froze up tight, right side is fine, so I still had some control. I know I can load it on the trailer and get it to a lot to work it and maybe break it loose ...I hope...

I cant do pictures of the winch, but I might get a friend to take some so I could email them, I'll check with him Sunday at breakfast. As for the dishwasher, you're thinking Maytag, not 30' Insinger commercial...60 to 1 reduction, 1400 inch lbs torque, driven by a 3hp 3ph 480v motor. I just 'Rubed' it in between the winch and the Kholer.

[sofmatchstaff]

Well, I got the 450 loaded up and out to an area to work it some, no luck with the steering, the lever hits a dead stop against the clutch fingers. Every thing else is working good. A little fuel issue, but that is fixed, a couple more hoses to be dealt with just as a precaution, and then I'll be leaning on Crawler123's steering clutch thread when I get some time. Sure glad he posted that pictorial, it will be a great reference.

I sent LeonardL some pictures of the "winch" and loader by email, and if He wants to post them here,( I cant) thats fine.

[Dave D]

Just learning about dozers, but my Kubota farm tractor came with a block for the clutch pedal so that if left for long periods the clutch friction disc won't rust onto the pressure plates. Wondering if there is a way to release the clutches on a dozer for long term storage (read long term to repair)

[jtrichard]

Dave yours is a C it has wet clutches rust NOT a problem on them .. IF you were asking about yours ... Some guys with DRY clutches block their levers back so they dont stick

[sofmatchstaff]

I have had the little beast up and moving for a while now, but its a clockwise tractor, cant seem to get the left steering clutch to pop loose. every thing else is working well. I need to get it to an area that I can put some stress on the clutch, and work it hard.