450 stuck steering clutch,penetrating oil?

lti · Post by **lti** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:05 pm

Just had this clutch out about 4 months ago and used it for 2 months before starter exploded and jamed flywheel had to to take engine out to get pieces of the starter gear out of flywheel. Inside good shed just got it to running again now that clutch is stuck on. Going to soak it with something because it will have to come back out so nothing to loose. Before we take it all a part again.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:46 pm

NEVER use any kind of OIL on a dry clutch

just what is "stuck" linkage? or the disc rusted to the flywheel?

lti · Post by **lti** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:17 pm

We just put in a new engine clutch, it was rusted together in the on postion. The fella helping us is a JD mechanic never seen such a mess. Who ever had this before had adjusted the power shift valve in the clutch housing to make you think the clutch was doing the work. We were in there because the starter drive gear had come a part and couple pieces had wedged in the fly wheel, locked the engine up tight. So the machine has been in the shed for the last couple of months as we took the engine out and overhauled the engine clutch. We had the right side steering clutch out about 4 months ago couldnt adjust it to work, supposedly had been over hauled, but solid rust. Put that back in worked up until the starter gear problem. Now it dont, our JD fella was looking it over last night said try some pentrating fluid you have nothing to loose maybe get lucky, and if not will be pulling that one out again. Something else is wrong it couldnt rust up that fast the other side is working as it did. This was bought at a consignment sale the paper on the machine had a bill for almost 3000$ of steering clutch work. Sorry to make a book out of this but will end up pulling that one again discouraging.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:13 am

what did you do to the steering clutch when you had it out? I would block the steering lever back to just before the brake starts to apply (or even back off the brake adjuster) and RUN the crap out of it (RUN HER HARD) and see if it will break lose

lti · Post by **lti** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:42 am

When the clutch was out the JD people cleaned it up bead blasted the rust out. They thought the clutch parts after cleaned looked good almost new so they put it back together checked the preasure plate. We put in a new throw out bearing put back together adjusted it and it worked up until the last 2 months it sat in the shed for the engine repair and now its not steering again on that side. Have did the run hard thing and the readjust but no combination will get it. Can see the throw out bearing moving and the fingers are moving when lever is pulled but still will not go into neutral. Could it have rusted in that short of time in a machine shed cement floor dry in there?

LeonardL · Post by **LeonardL** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:00 am

I agree with Jtrichard on this. Don't do the penetrating oil!!! You say you have nothing to loose when actually you do. At this point even if you have to take the clutch back out, most if not all of your clutch will be salvageable. If you soak it in any kind of oil you will ruin it. If you want to try anything at all, use water. Water will penetrate and then will dry back out. Oil of any kind is there forever. I have seen guys use diesel fuel to do this and it worked for a while. Ultimately they ended up putting new discs in because the diesel fuel ruined the ones they had. With a little work you can dry water back out of a dry clutch disc.
You asked if the steering clutch could stick in that short amount of time while in a machine shed. The answer to that is "Yes" they can. They can actually stick overnight. These old machines are water condensing fools. Even in the best of environments they will condense moisture and cause... especially the steering clutches, to rust and stick.
I agree with Jtrichard in trying again to force the clutch to spin. Find a good tree or boulder, something that won't move and see if you can pop the clutch loose. Wear your seat belt of course. I've heard of guys getting a little over zealous and getting thrown off of their machines while doing this.
If everything is functioning as you say and the adjustments are correct, then this thing should come loose. But never use oil... unless you have more money than I do to spend on new discs.

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:39 am

Hi,

The key on a dry clutch machine is to leave the plugs out of the bottom so the housing can breath yet keep rain water out. Of course, stay out of creeks and ponds with the plugs out....

Also, keep the machine under a shed roof. Not a tarp. Tarps collect moisture under from humidity and never seem to want to dry out. Closed up shops seem to also like to be humid.

I have had my machine under a shed roof for decades, sometimes not used for several months in a row and never have had the steering clutches set up.

Stan

lti · Post by **lti** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:04 pm

Well the clutch let loose. Soaked in wd40 for 2 days. So will see how the clutch discs get along. I just ran it up and down a part of the drive way and tigtend up the brake band it didnt want to go but finally let go.This machine has had a tough life from its previous owners couldnt do the tree thing. One plug drain plug was still in for this side so now they are both out. If anyone else uses the wd park ur machine so the side your doing is on the low side and dont run it. There must be a passage way because fluid can make it to the other side. We have a tractor that had a clutch problem a few years ago couldnt shift with out starting it in gear. Local IH mechanic said to seal the clutch housing and put about 3 gals of diesel in it and run it for about 20 hours we were baling hay so it went on the baler. Didnt help took the diesel out and run it that way for another year or so until we split the tractor broken finger was the cause.

Tigerhaze · Post by **Tigerhaze** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:46 pm

What's the saying- "You can lead the horse to water...?"

lti · Post by **lti** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:15 pm

The 450 crawler loader is running and steering will call this an experiment. I did not run it into a tree or rock this poor machine has had a tough enough life, just tightened the brake band, and run it up down a slope in the drive way. I will report back when the clutch fails and we have to pull it, and if the WD 40 broke them up. If we have to pull it, it will get brand new discs and the metals anyway, with or with out the WD40. So on we go.

LeonardL · Post by **LeonardL** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:27 pm

Tigerhaze wrote:What's the saying- "You can lead the horse to water...?"

Yeah... but you can't make them drink a darn thing.

I would like to clarify that I didn't intend for you to go and just ram the machine into a tree or a large boulder. What I wanted you to try was move the machine up against something solid and then force the machine forward against this object while holding the clutch that you wanted to get unstuck. Just to clarify...

lti · Post by **lti** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:45 pm

""What I wanted you to try was move the machine up against something solid and then force the machine forward against this object while holding the clutch that you wanted to get unstuck. Just to clarify..."" Understood and did do that at just engine idle or alittle better it just kept turning did it several times not with any wd40 put in. When we had this clutch out about 4 months ago the pinion shaft gear had 4 or 5 teeth rewelded and reformed how could you rip those apart. JD shop said to have local welder here in town build those damaged ones little better.They werent damaged they were chipped and chunks missing the former owners, did try and fill with weld, but not very good. After the welder here got done, hard to tell from new but how could a person force something to tear apart like that. Clutch housiing side frame bolts broke, again just had the welder fellow weld plates in, be a bear to get out now, I guess it will be cut your way in and weld your way back out. belly pan only one bolt holding that from falling off radiator mounts broke nose cone couple bolts holding that on. And the list goes on.

LeonardL · Post by **LeonardL** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:09 am

Sounds like the ole girl has been treated rather rough. Good luck with it and hope you get it sorted out soon.

lti · Post by **lti** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:10 am

''Sounds like the ole girl has been treated rather rough. Good luck with it and hope you get it sorted out soon'' Thanks, it was a consignment sale pruchase just happened to find it day of sale, or if known it was there would have looked it over a couple days before, thought it would be handy on the farm not to big. Paid $3800 for it, have probably with new engine clutch, rebuilt water pump power steering pump. and rebuilt right steering clutch, and labor from our weekend JD fellow, total bout $1200. Hope it will run awhile now, have cattle yards to clean and down trees around fields to push back away, lots of little jobs.it will be handy.... Edit.... Should also add, but we can live with that for a while tracks, rear sprockets, are shot. rollers arent bad, front and underneath.took a link out each side who ever had it before must did track work on both sides too, for a connecting pin all they did was find a pin about right size, and weld washers on both ends, thats what we did also.

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450 stuck steering clutch,penetrating oil?

450 stuck steering clutch,penetrating oil?

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