Corking a crawler, 450B
I will take a different view on the preheat. I have never done it, had no problems. My uncle had to have welded hundreds of feet of grouser stock in his life, he never said anything about preheat. I will qualify this by saying maybe something modern may have a different pad that may require it, but definitely not on these old girls.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
I know nothing of crawler pads, I'm better informed about welding. Preheat is about two things: sudden temperature change, and shrinkage. If steel remained dimensionally constant after solidifying, there would be little need to preheat. As molten steel cools it freezes, as it cools further, it shrinks further. Keeping it hot longer, allows crystals to form into stronger groups of molecules. Depending on the ductility of the weldment, preheat may, or may not be needed.
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.
[quote="s281jim"]Notmeu, it is welded to the base of the pad, perpendicular to the grouser, an attempt to curb sliding sideways on a hill[/quote]
This is not the technique I have seen. The mechanics I saw do it years ago used grouser stock of a variety one might use to replace worn off grousers. The stock was cut 1/4 the width of the pad, and added to the top of the grouser. If I recall pads with two pieces were held in 1/2" from each end, the next pad got one in the middle of the grouser.
This is not the technique I have seen. The mechanics I saw do it years ago used grouser stock of a variety one might use to replace worn off grousers. The stock was cut 1/4 the width of the pad, and added to the top of the grouser. If I recall pads with two pieces were held in 1/2" from each end, the next pad got one in the middle of the grouser.
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.
Here is some good reading
http://www.titussteel.com/our-products/ ... procedure/
preheating will make the high carbon low hydrogen electrode puddle and flow much better. Striking and starting cold with 7018 is not ideal, but it can be done
http://www.titussteel.com/our-products/ ... procedure/
preheating will make the high carbon low hydrogen electrode puddle and flow much better. Striking and starting cold with 7018 is not ideal, but it can be done
[quote="B Town"]Here is some good reading
http://www.titussteel.com/our-products/ ... procedure/
preheating will make the high carbon low hydrogen electrode puddle and flow much better. Striking and starting cold with 7018 is not ideal, but it can be done[/quote]
Preheat yes, and I use two hands. Holding the end of the stick in my off hand gives me the fine control to sneak up on the work, and start the arc. I've not tried one, they tell me the ARC PIG will add an overrunning high voltage/high frequency low current to your welding power. In TIG welding this establishes, and stabilizes the arc. People who have tried it say it makes 7018 child's play.
http://www.titussteel.com/our-products/ ... procedure/
preheating will make the high carbon low hydrogen electrode puddle and flow much better. Striking and starting cold with 7018 is not ideal, but it can be done[/quote]
Preheat yes, and I use two hands. Holding the end of the stick in my off hand gives me the fine control to sneak up on the work, and start the arc. I've not tried one, they tell me the ARC PIG will add an overrunning high voltage/high frequency low current to your welding power. In TIG welding this establishes, and stabilizes the arc. People who have tried it say it makes 7018 child's play.
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.
Re: Corking a crawler, 450B
Sorry for the hijack, but your post made me think of a story I heard as a kid. I remember hearing that back in the day a crew from said local logger was up scouting a cut off the CC road in the national forest and spotted an abandoned 350 sitting in an old overgrown log header. After some investigation they realized it was one of their machines that they had forgotten there when they pulled off a previous cut years before.Willie B wrote:A local logger bought 10 350s at one purchase. He had many other John Deere crawlers and skidders. All of his got corked with alternating 2 or 1 short pieces of grouser stock. At the time I was a kid, the people who did the work are gone. What sort of steel are track pads made of? Can they be welded cold, or is preheat needed? I'm concerned it'll be a big flying saucer should I get side hill in winter. Are there better patterns to use?
Not sure if it's true but with the size of the fleet he had back then it very well could be.
Re: Corking a crawler, 450B
[quote="hydrogeo"][quote="Willie B"]A local logger bought 10 350s at one purchase. He had many other John Deere crawlers and skidders. All of his got corked with alternating 2 or 1 short pieces of grouser stock. At the time I was a kid, the people who did the work are gone. What sort of steel are track pads made of? Can they be welded cold, or is preheat needed? I'm concerned it'll be a big flying saucer should I get side hill in winter. Are there better patterns to use?[/quote]
Sorry for the hijack, but your post made me think of a story I heard as a kid. I remember hearing that back in the day a crew from said local logger was up scouting a cut off the CC road in the national forest and spotted an abandoned 350 sitting in an old overgrown log header. After some investigation they realized it was one of their machines that they had forgotten there when they pulled off a previous cut years before.
Not sure if it's true but with the size of the fleet he had back then it very well could be.[/quote]
I've heard the story numerous times from family, and employees. Only change is it was on private property owned by an out of state individual. I can show you the saplings they knocked down retrieving it. Exactly how many years it sat I don't know, I'd guess ten.
Sorry for the hijack, but your post made me think of a story I heard as a kid. I remember hearing that back in the day a crew from said local logger was up scouting a cut off the CC road in the national forest and spotted an abandoned 350 sitting in an old overgrown log header. After some investigation they realized it was one of their machines that they had forgotten there when they pulled off a previous cut years before.
Not sure if it's true but with the size of the fleet he had back then it very well could be.[/quote]
I've heard the story numerous times from family, and employees. Only change is it was on private property owned by an out of state individual. I can show you the saplings they knocked down retrieving it. Exactly how many years it sat I don't know, I'd guess ten.
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.
[quote="Stan Disbrow"]Hi,
The issue, at least for me, was the machine rotating sideways way too easily on a hillside when plowing snow. Then, the frozen ground acts like a hockey rink and the grousers like skates - and away we go!
I went with the other option, ice caulks. They are conical studs that replace the pad bolts. They act like studs in snow tires, poking their way into the frozen tundra.
They are still on the 420c, even though they are mostly out of a job now (here in NC).
The discussion did become a little unclear there as we also got to discussing snow pads with their alternating grouser height and clearing holes.
Stan[/quote]
Sorry about that, I know only enough to be dangerous. The loggers from my youth knew of this technique because their boss paid them overtime to do it on tractors they would use. Their employer accepted a mortality rate, even his oldest son. Few skid roads were vertical on the mountain. Most were side hill. In the day, they were mostly National Forest. Logging has always been restricted in other seasons in National Forest. Survival required tracks that wouldn't slide sideways on a frozen mountain. I likely called it by the wrong name.
The issue, at least for me, was the machine rotating sideways way too easily on a hillside when plowing snow. Then, the frozen ground acts like a hockey rink and the grousers like skates - and away we go!
I went with the other option, ice caulks. They are conical studs that replace the pad bolts. They act like studs in snow tires, poking their way into the frozen tundra.
They are still on the 420c, even though they are mostly out of a job now (here in NC).
The discussion did become a little unclear there as we also got to discussing snow pads with their alternating grouser height and clearing holes.
Stan[/quote]
Sorry about that, I know only enough to be dangerous. The loggers from my youth knew of this technique because their boss paid them overtime to do it on tractors they would use. Their employer accepted a mortality rate, even his oldest son. Few skid roads were vertical on the mountain. Most were side hill. In the day, they were mostly National Forest. Logging has always been restricted in other seasons in National Forest. Survival required tracks that wouldn't slide sideways on a frozen mountain. I likely called it by the wrong name.
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.
So grousers are just made taller??? Not sure how this deters sliding sideways. I am relatively new to crawlers, but have only seen the added material welded perpendicular to the existing grouserWillie B wrote:
This is not the technique I have seen. The mechanics I saw do it years ago used grouser stock of a variety one might use to replace worn off grousers. The stock was cut 1/4 the width of the pad, and added to the top of the grouser. If I recall pads with two pieces were held in 1/2" from each end, the next pad got one in the middle of the grouser.
Taller, but gap toothed. Alternately, a pad grouser will have either two 4" corks on a 16" wide grouser, or a single one in middle. I'll theorize that they rarely encounter pure ice. Typically it's icy, snow, thin soil over rock or ledge. The places I've been are seldom frozen ground. Snow depth is such especially on the east slopes of the Green Mountains that it insulates the ground, allowing underground heat to prevent ground freezing. It isn't until they plow a skid road that it freezes. Often, I believe the carbide tipped tire chains on a rubber tired skidder offer better traction than a crawler.
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
I lived atop a mountain in NY State growing up, and Dad used the 420 to plow snow. After the first couple of slip-sideways-and-ice-skate, with snow psds, he added the caulks. They really do work.
Stan
I lived atop a mountain in NY State growing up, and Dad used the 420 to plow snow. After the first couple of slip-sideways-and-ice-skate, with snow psds, he added the caulks. They really do work.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Hi,
I think from the track parts suppliers these days, although they were available from Deere back when. They are pad bolts with a tall conical top which sticks up slightly above grouser height. Sort of like studs in snow tires.
Of course, one could always make them. Dad had found one set for the 420 lost in our parts shelves (back when we had the dealership). They were too high for the worn grousers, so he cut them all down to match. Then, put half a set on each chain. Half was better than none, and they did the job.
Stan
I think from the track parts suppliers these days, although they were available from Deere back when. They are pad bolts with a tall conical top which sticks up slightly above grouser height. Sort of like studs in snow tires.
Of course, one could always make them. Dad had found one set for the 420 lost in our parts shelves (back when we had the dealership). They were too high for the worn grousers, so he cut them all down to match. Then, put half a set on each chain. Half was better than none, and they did the job.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
caulking pads
Scottyb has a post somewhere on here about using 5/8 diameter grade 8 bolts installed through holes in 350 loader pads for ice traction with good effect.
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