450 Loader Engine Rebuild

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
Post Reply
JD450tl
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:56 pm

450 Loader Engine Rebuild

Post by JD450tl » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:33 am

Thought the 450 just needed a head gasket. Got into the engine and its shot. So it looks like an engine rebuild is in store. Wondering where a good place to buy a full rebuild kit is? Dealer wants about $2000 just for the parts. How do I determine which engine I have? It is a 1969 450 loader

Willie B
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:24 pm
Location: Mount Tabor VT

Post by Willie B » Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:34 pm

My engine rebuilder died. I've heard a young guy who worked for him took over. He was Edger Engines route 4A Castleton VT. Depending on crank and cam condition you can pretty much rebuild without much tooling or skill. I have done IH wet sleeve engines. If your crank is out of spec, you'll need an expert. Jack Edgerton always got me my parts. He went through a dozen wholesale engine parts suppliers.

Willie
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: 450 Loader Engine Rebuild

Post by oldmetalmender » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:17 pm

JD450tl wrote:Thought the 450 just needed a head gasket. Got into the engine and its shot. So it looks like an engine rebuild is in store. Wondering where a good place to buy a full rebuild kit is? Dealer wants about $2000 just for the parts. How do I determine which engine I have? It is a 1969 450 loader
Would you mind describing just what you found in your engine. I am possibly in the same boat or at least have a cooling system pressure issue after a very recent head gasket. I still need to open it up again and see what is wrong. I think the numbers are stamped in the block on the right side sitting in the seat. I may be incorrect and I am sure someone will chime in if that is the case. There is a picture of my engine number in my first post that is titled 450 intro and frustrating head gasket issue. Sorry I am not more help. I'm new to these machines and trying to get up to speed.
When I priced an in frame engine kit I remembered it being 895.00 Probably does not include the cam and the rest of what you need.
There are a lot of knowledgeable and very helpful people on this forum though.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Post by oldmetalmender » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:29 am

That 895.00 was for an aftermarket kit. Looking at the JD parts finder site and seeing a RE61610 engine in frame kit. Searching some of the sites that sell original John Deere parts showed no hits on a search. They are probably a dealer item only. Maybe someone here on the forum knows.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

Willie B
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:24 pm
Location: Mount Tabor VT

Post by Willie B » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:03 pm

The machine shops involved in engine work buy from manufacturers of engine components. They know which are quality, and which aren't. I once bought a component group of parts from Central Tractor in Iowa.
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.

JD450tl
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:56 pm

Re: 450 Loader Engine Rebuild

Post by JD450tl » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:23 pm

oldmetalmender wrote:
JD450tl wrote:Thought the 450 just needed a head gasket. Got into the engine and its shot. So it looks like an engine rebuild is in store. Wondering where a good place to buy a full rebuild kit is? Dealer wants about $2000 just for the parts. How do I determine which engine I have? It is a 1969 450 loader
Would you mind describing just what you found in your engine. I am possibly in the same boat or at least have a cooling system pressure issue after a very recent head gasket. I still need to open it up again and see what is wrong. I think the numbers are stamped in the block on the right side sitting in the seat. I may be incorrect and I am sure someone will chime in if that is the case. There is a picture of my engine number in my first post that is titled 450 intro and frustrating head gasket issue. Sorry I am not more help. I'm new to these machines and trying to get up to speed.
When I priced an in frame engine kit I remembered it being 895.00 Probably does not include the cam and the rest of what you need.
There are a lot of knowledgeable and very helpful people on this forum though.

I initially noticed a lack of power. Checked fluids, and found the oil level almost the entire length of the dipstick. It was also obviously full of water or coolant, and the radiator was empty as far as I could tell. My brother is a diesel mechanic and has the top end torn apart. Head gasket was bad, but the seemingly bigger problem now is that the cylinder walls are severely scored and scratched, and the pistons are burnt up on the edges. I'll try to post some picks. I need to contact Lavoy on here to see about rebuild parts. I'll try and put some picks up of the cylinders

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Post by oldmetalmender » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:11 pm

That would sure do it. Hopefully just an in frame kit will get everything fixed. But a 69 has some years on it. I suppose a good look will reveal what is next. Good luck and I'll be following your thread.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

JD450tl
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:56 pm

Post by JD450tl » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:03 pm

here are some pictures i got of the cylinders and the pistons

Image

Image

Image

Willie B
430 crawler
430 crawler
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:24 pm
Location: Mount Tabor VT

Post by Willie B » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:27 pm

Don't leave the head off, squirrels will fill the oil pan full of nuts. There's a lot of room between piston, and cylinder. You sure got your moneys worth out of those sleeves. Reminds me of the Farmall Cub I got at age 9. It started very hard. I could slide a butter knife between piston and wall.

Willie
An optimist is usually wrong, and doomed to disappointment. he is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, delighted to be wrong, and is well prepared.

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Post by oldmetalmender » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:26 pm

Wow, there is some use there. It almost looks like a foreign object was dinging things up some.

So I read here and there that cylinder liners crack. My first guess would be around the top shoulder. Is that the typical spot? Or the sides? Anybody know?

It will be nice to get some fresh parts in there. I bet you make a lot more power when done. Thanks for posting the pictures.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

Jim S.
420 crawler
420 crawler
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:41 pm

Post by Jim S. » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:12 pm

I just finished a 1970 450 engine rebuild over the weekend. Started on the first stroke when done. I don't have any time on the machine yet so I don't know about power through the RPM range.
I bought a complete rebuild kit from an outfit in Atlanta. Sleeves, pistons, rings, all bearings (incl balance shaft), two new conn rods, all gaskets, etc for less than $900 delivered. I was impressed with quality. Packaging was first rate and everything fit perfectly. No country of origin on any packaging, but it all looked domestic. For example, iron parts (rods and sleeves) were all individually packaged in corrosion inhibitor impregnated paper. Each individually packaged part was marked with the proper JD part number but had an extra digit or letter preceding JD number, thus easy to cross reference with JD parts.
I should note that my engine was not original to the 1970 machine but was a 4239 engine from a later 450 model (as well as a number of other machines). I just provided the vendor my engine SN and they took it from there. Phone and email communication were prompt and thorough.

I don't have my receipt handy, but PM me and I'll send contact info for vendor if you're interested.

Jim S

User avatar
Tigerhaze
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2287
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:13 pm
Location: West-Central MO

Post by Tigerhaze » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:28 pm

I would check with Lavoy on this site if you haven't already- he supports this site through parts sales and is competitive with pricing even with shipping. If he can't get it he will let you know.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests