Reverser operation

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NWJD fan
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Post by NWJD fan » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:56 pm

Thread size for test ports on the 450C is the same as the hose on a grease gun as that is what is often used to tap into system for testing and adjustment.
Your starting procedure sounds like good training for operating some of the old grapple yarder logging machines. Multiple foot pedals hand levers and a couple of things operated by your knees. Everything had to be in sync or winches might over run with nasty rat nests of wire rope ensuing and maybe a few tons of wood coming down the hill at you under less than optimal control :shock:

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jtrichard
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Post by jtrichard » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:37 pm

Grease hose is 1/8" pipe thread
2010 with 622 dozer with mod. 35 ripper and a 2010 with 622 dozer bought in 1969 and a 2010 loader with drott and mod. 36 ripper

oldmetalmender
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Post by oldmetalmender » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:21 pm

Well perfect. Thanks for responding. I'll come up with a gauge and the hose soon so I can get set up for some dialing in. I know this machine has great potential. It has just been neglected by previous owners. And soon, no more contortionist acts to start it. :lol:

Thank you.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler SOLD to a neighbor
Beloved wife Elizabeth Ann Temple murdered by covid on October 19th 2021

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:06 am

jtrichard wrote:Grease hose is 1/8" pipe thread
Hi,

I was gonna say that last nite, but then I was hit with a sudden doubt because I could not recall just how I might have known that. And, I thought I would hold off until I got back into the shop this morning and check one of my guns. :P

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

oldmetalmender
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Post by oldmetalmender » Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:28 pm

Thank you Stan. Everyone on this board is very helpful. It is a pleasure to be here.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler SOLD to a neighbor
Beloved wife Elizabeth Ann Temple murdered by covid on October 19th 2021

pondhogvt
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HLR adjustment.

Post by pondhogvt » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:07 pm

sorry I should have posted sooner but trying to keep the snow off the dozers and have only been on here sporadically lately.. atleast it's not that 20 degrees below zero forever like last winter..

I think dr Loch or somebody posted this whole procedure a year or so ago so I won't go into the whole procedure as it's to much typing anyway...

But a few ideas on what I do might help with anxiety!!. one I use a grease gun hose on my gauge,, fits perfect but I by the long one for like ten bucks at tractor supply.. I use the long one so when I sit in the seat after initial adjustment I can run the dozer back and forth and the gauge is right in my hand so I can watch the pressures as I shift and if necessary make fine adjustments after..

when you pull out the barrel type screw in plug to get to the pressure port blow everything off with air as that hole is recessed and anything you touch during the adjustment phase will want to go into that hole,, dirt, sawdust from logging and snow,, and the hole is directly above the HLR clutch Pak.

the plug you have to remove is quite small with an Allen head in middle to remove,, I use a magnetic Allen wrench and it spares my nerves on removing the plug and also to put it back in and get the threads started..

Do your clutch pedal free play first and after turning for adjustment if your pressure is low,, remove the rubber plug on right.. in that relief valve cap a penny or a dime seems to work quite well to get the pressure back to normal.. after all those relief valve springs have probably been in there for 40yrs. so they are bound to get week... just put alittle grease on the penny so it doesn't fall out while you try to put it back on... sometimes two pennies,,, and as they say that's my two cents..

Also the whole job only takes like 5 minutes to adjust,,, it takes about a half an hour to clean everything and install the gauge...

One real important thing when you are adjusting the machine,, do not touch the clutch pedal even a tiny bit as it will cause the adjustment to be off and make it very harsh even violent.... make your adjustment for fine tuning by not touching the clutch pedal except to stop and adjust some more,,,,, when properly adjusted it will shift like butter,,, at that point you can decide to use the clutch or not as the way you shift,,, but use it or don't use it.. if you let your foot ride on the clutch pedal the least amount it will make the shift violent... best of luck Mark.
350 loader,350c dozer winch and arch,450c winch and arch,450e winch and arch,D37p komatsu lgp dozer,D85 Komatsu dozer,D8k Caterpillar.

oldmetalmender
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Post by oldmetalmender » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:04 pm

Thank you Mark. I am still waiting for the gauge and hose to show up. I had 5 gauges in the drawer. All 100 PSI or less. I have a 300 PSI on the way. I am currently using the clutch and going slow on the shifts. I tried not using it and it just bangs to much. Now I am wondering if I was touching the clutch. The snow keeps falling here. I have been doing fine with the 400 backhoe but just two days ago my neighbor asked for help pushing snow back on our common road back to his place. It took 6 passes to get it done. Really heavy wet snow and ice. I'm trying not to use the dozer much. But at this rate.... Thanks for the post.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler SOLD to a neighbor
Beloved wife Elizabeth Ann Temple murdered by covid on October 19th 2021

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DrLoch
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Post by DrLoch » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:11 am

Here is one write-up that was done by jdemaris,

Speed of shift is a relatively easy adjustment. Pull the left floorboard out. There is a rubber plug there. pop the plug out and you will find a 5/16" nut on a threaded rod sticking straight upright. I use a 3/8 ratchet with a 1/2" deep socket on a short extension. To do it right you will need to put a gauge into the pressure tap hole. This is located between the steering levers on the cast top cover. There will be a " drum bung " there . remove the bung plug. Inside you will find a 1/8" pipe plug with a 3/16 allen head.I use a dab of grease on the allen when removing the plug. This plug is on an angle, pointing forward. Install a gauge with a 1/8 nipple . A 250 lb gauge will work fine.Adjust the pedal free-play to about 4 1/4" from top of pedal to where the throw out bearing just touches the clutch fingers. Put the 4 speed into the neutral position between 3rd and 4th gears.Lock the brakes down.Start the machine, ease out the clutch pedal to make sure the 4 speed is in neutral. You can now start adjusting the HLR speed of shift. I usually back off the adjustment till the pressure drops off a bit. Then I turn the adjustment in till the pressure goes to maximum psi. Turn it a bit more till the pressure just starts to drop off [ 5 to 10 lbs ]. You will be real close now. Try the speed of shift with the 4 speed still in neutral at about 1/2 throttle. The gauge will show a lag between high and reverse . when you have it close, put the 4 speed into 2nd gear and try it out. If it's still fast, turn the adjustment in 1/4 turn at a time till it's comfortable. It should just suck you out of the seat slightly going high to reverse . don't make it too " lazy " or too slow. This could cause overheating because of slippage. If it's too slow back off the adjustment 1/4 turn at a time. Usually when it's adjusted right, you can push the clutch pedal down 1/2" and the pressure gauge will show a slight increase in pressure . The book can be a little intimidating . Go with the above and you should be OK. If you don't feel confident doing it yourself , print this page and take it to your mechanic. Oh , the pressure should read 175 to 185 lbs. . If after doing adjustments the pressure isn't up to snuff, under the right floorboard is a rubber plug. Under the plug you will find a cap of the pressure control valve.[ A penny is good for about 12 to 15 lbs.]



Here is more

TESTING AND ADJUSTMENTS


Engine Clutch Assembly


1-Free Travel 3-Pedal Detent Adjusting
2-H-l-R linkage Stop Nut Screw

Fig. 1-Adjusting H-L-R Linkage

Whenever the clutch and H-L-R linkage have been removed, or clutch pedal free travel becomes less than 3.25 inch (88.9 mm) or whenever H-L-R shifts from high to reverse too aggressively, the linkage must be readjusted. Be sure to make both adjustments in the sequence given below.

First adjust clutch pedal free travel to 3.75 inch (95.3 mm) at the clutch pad as follows: Remove lett footrest from crawler. Observe detent set screw on clutch pedal arm on left side of clut,ch housing (Fig.
1). Loosen detent to increase free travel or tighten screw to decrease free travel. Always end up with screw in the detent (locked position).

Refer to Section 70, Group 25 and install pressure gauge as instructed at the bypass valve port in the accumulator housing through the access hole in the transmission top cover.

Turn H-L-R clutch valve stop nut down until clutch pedal just starts to pull away from stop, then back it out five turns.




With both gear shift and H-L-R levers in neutral and brakes locked, start engine and run at slow idle.

Turn the valve operating linkage stop nut (2,Fig. 1) clockwise until the pressure at the gauge just starts to drop.Then turn the nut in one additional turn.

NOTE: As the nut is turned, the pressure at the gauge will increase to approximately 160 psi (1103 kPa) (11 bar) maximum and then drop approximately
5 psi (35 kPa) (0.35 bar) as the nut is turned further.

Check the adjustment by depressing the pedal1/2 to 3/4 inch (12.7 to 19 mm). The pressure at the gauge should rise approximately 5 psi(35 kPa) (0.35 bar). If the 5 psi (35 kPa) (0.35 bar) requires more than 3/4 inch (19 mm) pedaltravel,turn nut counter­ clockwise. If 5 psi (35 kPa) (0.35 bar) is at less thatn
1/2 inch (12.7 mm) pedal travel, turn nut clockwise.

Depress clutch pedal and be sure that the pedal hits the firewall to prevent damage to the ctutcln adjusting lever.

H-L-R Transmission

The H-L-R oil pressure test and speed of shift adjustment are covered in Section 70,Group 25.

Check H-L-R linkage for wear. See Linkage Wear
Check in this section.

Proceed as follows to make the H-L-R lever adjustment:

1. Shift H-L-R lever (11, Fig. 47,page 40-10-28) in neutral detent (between high and reverse).

2. Hold H-L-R lever against back edge of slot in neutral lock (7, Fig. 46, page 40-10-27). Apply pres­ sure to take play out of neutral lock.

3. Starting with the H-L-R rod yoke (15, Fig. 47, page 40-10-28) adjust long. Shorten the H-L-R rod yoke until pin (8) slips through the yoke and pivot arm (22). Turn yoke 1/2 additional turn but not so short that the pin will not slide freely into yoke and pivot arm.



4. Install pin and cotter pin. Tighten the yoke jam nut.


Check H-L-R Linkage For Wear

70
20-7


To test H-L-R lever adjustment, proceed as follows:

1. With the H-L-R control lever locked in neutral and the speed selector lever in the 4th position, depress the clutch pedal and start the engine.

2. Make certain the area around the crawler is cleared to allow some travel of the machine.

3. Adjust the engine throttle lever to obtain an engine speed of approximately 1900 rpm.

4. While holding the foot brake firmly and with the clutch fully depressed,lift the H-L-R neutrallock and shift the lever to reverse.

5. With the brake pedal firmly depressed, slowly release the clutch pedal to such a degree that the engine starts to load in reverse.

6. Again fully depress the clutch pedal and move the H-L-R control lever toward neutraljust far enough that the neutral lock can be placed over the lever in the locked position. Now slowly release the clutch pedal to its maximum engaged position.

NOTE: If the crawler begins rearward movement while releasing the clutch pedal, shut the engine off, recheck the adjustment of the linkage and if necessary, adjust the linkage yoke an additional 112 turn clock­ wise. Retest as outlined in steps 1 through 6 of the testing procedure.

7. After establishing that the unit will not operate rearward with the lever locked in neutral, repeat the testing procedure (steps 1 through 6) from the high to neutral position and readjust as required until no movement of the crawler can occur in either direction with the H-L-R lever locked in neutral.



















With H-L-R valve in neutral detent, H-L-R lever has some movement before linkage moves valve arm out of neutral detent. This movement increases as pivot points in linkage wear or yoke nut is not tight.

1. Place H-L-R lever in neutral position.

2. Apply slight amount of rearward pressure on lever holding it against detent. Mark location of lever on quadrant. Apply slight amount of forward pressure on lever holding it against opposite side of detent. Mark location of lever on quadrant. Use same spot on lever for both markings.Measure distance between the two marks.If distance is less than 0.5 inch (12.7 mm), linkage wear is not a problem.

3. If distance is 0.5 inch (12.7 mm) or more,inspect control rod pivot pin, control rod yoke, and pivot pin for wear. One or more of these wear points must be repaired to bring control linkage free travel under 0.5 inch (12.7 mm). Be sure jam nut is tight.



Getting the pressure correct is important.
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oldmetalmender
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Post by oldmetalmender » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:50 am

Excellent Drloch. Thank you for taking the time to post. I'll be able to do some work next week after the gauge arrives and I get some stuff done for a relative. I prefer to do all my own work. I have rebuilt a lot of things. It's new ground working on this type of equipment. It is exciting for me and getting this type of guidance is just fantastic. So thank you. Your post will help others also.

Cheers,
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler SOLD to a neighbor
Beloved wife Elizabeth Ann Temple murdered by covid on October 19th 2021

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:57 am

Hi,

I honestly do not recall ever hearing anyone say working on a crawler was exciting..... :P

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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DrLoch
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Post by DrLoch » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:43 pm

oldmetalmender, we are all in this together. My 450C needed this adjustment made to it and I did a lot of research before doing it. The hardest art for me was getting the pipe plug removed, it got rounded out so I had to remove the top of the trans to get the block off so I could machine it out.

The adjustments will make more sense once you see the results while you are doing the adjustments. Doing it with the 4 speed section in neutral, between 3rd and 4th made it a lot easier. You could hear the engine make a distinct change when shifting from forward to reverse with the HLR shifter.
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oldmetalmender
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Post by oldmetalmender » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:07 am

Stan Disbrow wrote:Hi,

I honestly do not recall ever hearing anyone say working on a crawler was exciting..... :P

Stan
I like to learn new mechanical stuff. And there is nothing better than making something old work like new. :)
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler SOLD to a neighbor
Beloved wife Elizabeth Ann Temple murdered by covid on October 19th 2021

oldmetalmender
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Location: Idaho Panhandle

Post by oldmetalmender » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:13 am

DrLoch wrote:oldmetalmender, we are all in this together. My 450C needed this adjustment made to it and I did a lot of research before doing it. The hardest art for me was getting the pipe plug removed, it got rounded out so I had to remove the top of the trans to get the block off so I could machine it out.

The adjustments will make more sense once you see the results while you are doing the adjustments. Doing it with the 4 speed section in neutral, between 3rd and 4th made it a lot easier. You could hear the engine make a distinct change when shifting from forward to reverse with the HLR shifter.
Well it sounds like Murphy stopped by your place that day. Sometimes the simplest things.... I ended up ordering a 200 PSI gauge for better resolution. I can still use the 300 gauge on other projects.
I'm sitting at my Aunts place this morning. I just showed her this forum and how helpful all this info is. They have a 450B sitting out in the barn. I think I just got volunteered to be their crawler mechanic. :D
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler SOLD to a neighbor
Beloved wife Elizabeth Ann Temple murdered by covid on October 19th 2021

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Stan Disbrow
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Post by Stan Disbrow » Sun Jan 24, 2016 5:11 pm

oldmetalmender wrote:
Stan Disbrow wrote:Hi,

I honestly do not recall ever hearing anyone say working on a crawler was exciting..... :P

Stan
I like to learn new mechanical stuff. And there is nothing better than making something old work like new. :)
Hi,

Yes, there is a certain satisfaction to keeping old stuff going. Somewhere on this board is the story of my M wheel tractor and how it was wrecked and how my dad and I pieced it back together - literally. Including the repaired pistons....

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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DrLoch
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Post by DrLoch » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:11 am

oldmetalmender wrote: Well it sounds like Murphy stopped by your place that day. Sometimes the simplest things.... I ended up ordering a 200 PSI gauge for better resolution. I can still use the 300 gauge on other projects.
I'm sitting at my Aunts place this morning. I just showed her this forum and how helpful all this info is. They have a 450B sitting out in the barn. I think I just got volunteered to be their crawler mechanic. :D
Yes he did. I understand about the resolution, you must be an engineer. Important part is to get the pressure up to 180 or so. Don't just assume the relief needs to be shimmed, I did. Once the adjustment was correct the pressure was too high and I had to remove all valuable pennies I added as shims. :shock:
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