Advice wanted on purchase decision between JD 450 and 450 c.

[Willie B]

If you're seriously skidding logs a skidder wins hands down. If you want self sufficiency, able to build roads including skid roads, you need a crawler too. Big crew loggers have both. The logs mostly get moved with a skidder. The earth gets moved with a crawler. A skidder can build a road. It can't build a very good road. A crawler can move a log, but slowly. Buy them both, or buy a crawler.

[Idaho jarhead]

Still shopping, the 450 c is still available and have operated it some more. It still seems to run and steer well will bury a blade and spin tracks. The gearbox grinding I heard the first time didn't happen with me running it this time, its a little hard to locate 3 but I think that's from lots of play in lever linkage, looks like maybe it's missing a bushing. I watched li kages under seat and spool valves for steering clutches move as soon as le ers start travel so I'm thinking the 8" travel before turning is brake bands engaging late since when driving I can pull both levers till clutches disengage and machine stops and that takes about 5;6" travel then another 2" till I feel brake bands tighten. I think I can deal with only 1000 hrs left in the UC, but there's no serial number plate and so far the owner can't find the bill of sale from when he purchased the machine. Any ideas on how to find serial number or at least what year the machine is? And is this going to be a giant headache to get parts without it? Thanks for all the help so far, and any new advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Jack-the-Ripper]

I've posted a lot about stuck dry clutches, - still haven't fixed my "C" steering clutch issue - search authors - "Jack-the-Ripper"

Its probably easier and cheaper to repair clutches, particularly the dry ones, than to rebuild tracks. I don't think you will have "wrenching" issues with these machines.

I had the main steel hydraulic line from the pump rub the frame and leak. It is installed before the engine and drive train are put in. I had to cut it into pieces for removal and replace it with a rubber hose and appropriate friction pads.

I would be happy to talk to you any time as I have experienced many of the issues you raise. I paid in the $13k range for my dozers about 15 years ago. Times were good, prices maybe too high. I have a friend who has picked up a couple of 450s in the Los Angeles area in the $5-8k range and shipped them to New Mexico.

You can take some of the slack out of the 6-way hydraulic control mechanism by replacing the roll pins with stock pins found at any hardware store. I tried reboring and inserting bushings which was too much work and not much extra gain. Take good pictures when you take that linkage apart as it is not obvious how it goes together when it is only a pile of parts. I marked each joint with numbers to help match them up.

Now in San Francisco area, my 450s start immediately even after sitting for several years. When in Idaho, I recall it always took ether for the dozers, the Case 580, and the Dump with Detroit 8V92 below 40 degrees F. The Komatsu PC120 never needed ether at any temperature.

Lately the 450 starters were sluggish. After checking all the connections and rebuilding the starter, I still had the problem. A rebuilt starter from Napa parts solved the problem summarily.

I'm going to try to send to you a private message for contact through this board.

[Willie B]

I don't know any doing it for a living loggers who don't have both skidders and dozers. Like other tools, they excel at different jobs.

Be conscious that wear gets faster as an undercarriage wears. At the onset sprockets pull equally on all engaging bushings. After a while, the chain grows in length, while the sprocket teeth get closer together. On worn equipment only the first tooth engages the track chain to pull, on all others it's loose. A 4000 hour life likely involves lots of idling. 50% worn might mean only 1/4 the hours left in it.