Can I change to elc oat coolant?

Post by **Lavoy** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:53 pm

No problem.
That's it, Cool-gard, probably wasn't II back in my day, but that sure sounds like the name I was trying to come up with.
Lavoy

LeonardL · Post by **LeonardL** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:14 pm

Idaho jarhead wrote:LeonardL, sorry for busting your chops about spelling it was a crummy thing to do in response to what I felt might have been a questioning of my intelligence. I apologize for that. I should have taken the advice the way you meant it, someone with more experience than me trying hard to keep me from doing something detrimental to my equipment. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.

That's okay I should have worded the thing differently. Believe me if I had it to do over I would have. If it helps, my wife read what I wrote and she scolded me pretty good for writing it the way I did. So from her... you can consider my head as she put it, "Thumped." Twice! Once for being so stupid and then again for being so stupid.

So I apologize again and will be more editorial the next time I post a response. Good luck with your equipment and I hope you do well.

oldmetalmender · Post by **oldmetalmender** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:00 am

So what rigs do use extended life coolant? Semi trucks? And what kind of radiator do they have? I suspect aluminum. I remember reading in some forums after searching on this and deciding on using it. I remember seeing pictures of rusted cylinder liners and that is what I wanted to avoid. I did not know it was organic acid based and that it would damage conventional soldered radiators. I did not see anything about this when I read up on it. I am pretty bothered about learning that ELC coolant is not the way to go after thinking it was a good choice. Not everything you read online is accurate or best. I am going to town tomorrow to get ethylene glycol based coolant and a bunch of distilled water. Now is also a good time to install the coolant heater. Unfortunately I recently did this to my backhoe also. Listening to you guys is expensive.

Albeit a bit embarrassing sometimes too.

I'll fix it and pretend it didn't happen. JK....

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:21 am

YOU should also add the additive like NAPA KOOL it helps stop the cavitation pitting

Stan Disbrow · Post by **Stan Disbrow** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:00 am

Lavoy wrote:No problem.
That's it, Cool-gard, probably wasn't II back in my day, but that sure sounds like the name I was trying to come up with.
Lavoy

Hi,

Yeah, it wasn't II until....well....I can't recall just when that happened!

But anyway, Cool-Gard as a name is about as old as Torque-Gard is for their engine oil.

Yes, Deere stuff costs more, but then they have labs full of engineers who pay close attention to what is going on, and so I think that they do a better job than most. So, I just pay for that.

Besides, Deere has their own credit card which makes the paying part way too easy. I don't even have to carry it with me. It is on file. I just plop the bottles on the counter and the parts guy enters it into the computer and off I go.

Stan

pop pop · Post by **pop pop** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:33 am

i just pee on the tree that shades my crawly to keep it cool,

Idaho jarhead · Post by **Idaho jarhead** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:54 am

Hi metalmender, what part of the panhandle? Sorry to hear you have two machines to worry about, judging by your signature we might be a lot alike, more toys than we can keep up with. I also thought this stuff sounded great, extended life and no additives to monitor, sign me up. I should have known, you can probably figure out what happened the last time I said that! After a lot of research and the help of the folks on this site ( thanks again guys ) I'm going to stick with traditional pre charged coolant and changing at recommend intervals. Since you already have this in your machines for what sounds like six months now with no obviously disastrous results, I'll offer what I found in lots of looking. The zerex g o5 which is a hybrid oat coolant that supposedly has a component which protects lead copper and brass, Tri......something or other. Sorry I didn't write it down, but i think it came from a zerex site. The other possibly pertinent information came from someone on a different forum who stated the zerex go 5 is backwards compatible with all Deere equipment till the dawn of time. Hope I haven't needlessly muddied the water, but since you said you like to research things these are the only two things I could find supporting the possible compatibility of one of the zerex products. It's not much but it might be worth a call to the JD dealer. Hope I didn't give you a headache and everything turns out ok for you and your machines.

Post by **Lavoy** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:47 pm

In the automotive world when they came out with Dex-Cool and some of the other "permanent" antifreezes to replace what had already been called "permanent" since before I was born, we were told it was backwards compatible, but unless you drained and flushed the system, it did not retain it's properties.
Lavoy

CatD8RII · Post by **CatD8RII** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:57 pm

Just a few FYIs on the Cat ELC.

ELC is factory filled on CAT stuff now, SCAs (and many other parameters) are still monitored, typically by a sampling (or SOS) service. They still sell an SCA booster, which is usually needed around 5000hrs or so. The max life on the coolant is 12000hrs. One of the most common warnings we get on samples is to add ELC to restore inhibitor levels.

Most newer equipment uses aluminum core radiators, there is talk from certian manufacturers that the organic acids can attack the lead solder in a copper core radiator. Cats official stance is that it only happens at "extreme" temperatures. There is also certain coolants that have attacked certain rubber components/ seals hoses etc. I do not know how much validity there is to all this. You almost need to be a chemist to understand all the differences. Many of the changes to the coolants were also due to the new emission standards (don't get me started on all that garbage

) mainly for dealing with EGR coolers.

We have a fleet of over 2000 pieces at work, everything gets ELC and we have little to no issues. Most of the fleet is fairly (less then 15 years) old. We put the ELC in Volvo, Cummins and Mack equipment as well. Also, I understand the backwards compatibility the way Lavoy does, they will mix, you just loose the longer drain interval.

With that being said. Do water pumps/ heater hoses or EGR and oil coolers last 5000 or 12000 hours? Chances are, you will need to drain out your coolant before it is "expired". Most people don't re-use stuff they drain out anyway, and with the grey area about copper cored coolers, the need to still monitor and the priceyness,I'd stay away from the stuff in your older equipment. I use conventional coolant in all my older stuff. If you wanted a Cat coolant, use the DEAC not the ELC.

One other thing, when reading a post on here, try not to infer someones tone or attitude from text, it is the one thing that sucks about message boards, two people can read the same thing and get two completely different messages! Leonard is one of the most knowledgeable and friendly guys on old Deeres you can ever meet! He just gets cantankerous from time to time

Idaho jarhead · Post by **Idaho jarhead** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:31 pm

Thanks for the good information on coolant, and people. Just curious here, as I did a lot of thinking and hypothesizing while trying to educate myself. I noticed the silicates seem to have disappeared in the organic acid coolants. I'm assuming the OAT coolants control scale by being slightly on the acidic side of neutral. Are the silicates, which I assume are minutely abrasive, in traditional coolant to continually scour out water jackets and radiator cores so scale can't get started? Or have I been thinking about all this toooo long. Thanks again for all the info.

jtrichard · Post by **jtrichard** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:58 pm

"

He just gets cantankerous from time to time

Leonard? naw you MUST be thinking of someone else LOL

oldmetalmender · Post by **oldmetalmender** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:50 pm

jtrichard wrote:YOU should also add the additive like NAPA KOOL it helps stop the cavitation pitting

I'll pick up some for both machines. I managed to get one switched back to ethylene glycol based coolant today after a good flush. Thank you!

oldmetalmender · Post by **oldmetalmender** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:35 pm

Idaho jarhead wrote:Hi metalmender, what part of the panhandle? Sorry to hear you have two machines to worry about, judging by your signature we might be a lot alike, more toys than we can keep up with. I also thought this stuff sounded great, extended life and no additives to monitor, sign me up. I should have known, you can probably figure out what happened the last time I said that! After a lot of research and the help of the folks on this site ( thanks again guys ) I'm going to stick with traditional pre charged coolant and changing at recommend intervals. Since you already have this in your machines for what sounds like six months now with no obviously disastrous results, I'll offer what I found in lots of looking. The zerex g o5 which is a hybrid oat coolant that supposedly has a component which protects lead copper and brass, Tri......something or other. Sorry I didn't write it down, but i think it came from a zerex site. The other possibly pertinent information came from someone on a different forum who stated the zerex go 5 is backwards compatible with all Deere equipment till the dawn of time. Hope I haven't needlessly muddied the water, but since you said you like to research things these are the only two things I could find supporting the possible compatibility of one of the zerex products. It's not much but it might be worth a call to the JD dealer. Hope I didn't give you a headache and everything turns out ok for you and your machines.

I'm about 15 miles north of Priest River. Sort of near South Baldy. My wife and I have been here 2 years now. A very peaceful place with lots of wildlife. So yes, this ELC coolant stuff has more to it than I imagined. I did some brief reading on it back a couple months ago when I redid my 450C head gasket. Thought it was the way to go. Well reading the label on the zerex it said deere compatible, however comma I decided to switch back to standard coolant. I got the backhoe done today after a good flush. It was a good day for it as I was able to get the coolant heater installed and with the oil pan heater I am ready for another cold snap. Now that spring is here..... I even put a dab of JB weld on a pin hole casting flaw in the side of my block that was weeping oil.
So back to ethylene glycol based coolant and distilled water in the 400. The 450C is next just not as easy to reach everything. I am also about to take it apart for some head gasket sealing issues. I have had the JD400 for several years. The 450 for 1 year last month. I was an uneducated buyer and missed a couple issues it has. They are all fixable and I am looking forward to working on something new. And yellow...

My old hobby for a long time was military trucks. (green machines) But I am ending that and keeping only one. This coolant thread has been most educational. Everybody sure is helpful and knows these old machines. I'll be pulling the 450C motor apart in just a couple months. And I have a diesel mechanic for a neighbor who winters in Florida coming back soon. He is going to be a second set of eyes on the 450 motor work. I'll post it up here too. I have played with a lot of gas motors, I prefer gearboxes, and love car body metal restoration. I have a few things to learn about diesels. I had never heard about cavitation on liner issues. And this coolant stuff. It's all good though. Just some more late night reading to be done. I'm enjoying all the new information. Edit: forgot to ask what part of ID are you in?

CatD8RII · Post by **CatD8RII** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:18 pm

Jarhead

I think i agree with that for the most part. The silicates are used to form a layer on components to protect them from cavitation/corrosion etc. the only negative is that yes, they can become lightly abrasive once they begin to dropout of the coolant, thats the main reason those coolants require more frequent maintenance (changing) then the newer styles.The silicates need renewed every 2 years of use or so. The theory of the extended life stuff is that it uses a chemical reaction to protect components. Not all of them are recommended for the older copper core and iron engine systems, pretty sure they're designed with aluminum systems in mind. They actually are not acidic in their final forms. Most good PH samples we get back at work are above 8.5. So, i know its all still as clear as muddy pond water, but it's a safe bet that good old ethylene glycol won't hurt anything.

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