oil leak---HELP

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cantbeatadeere
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oil leak---HELP

Post by cantbeatadeere » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:04 pm

we just rebuilt my brother-in-law's 350c transmission, assembled the final drives with Loctite 515 - cleaned-primed, let it set overnight and when we filled it they leak-----both sides the same. my question is should we use a diff. sealer such as Permatex ultra black or something of that sort ?????

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:29 am

(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

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LeonardL
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Post by LeonardL » Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:42 am

First of all I'm sorry you have leaks. It's always a bummer to find a leak after all that work. I am curious where your leaks are? Judging from my past experience with other failures of this sort, I would guess they're right at the bottom of the final drive where the inner bearing for the Bull gear shaft is. Just a guess...
Loctite 515 and other Anaerobic sealers do their thing under compression. The reason for this is so you can fill what ever component with oil immediately after reassembly. Leaving Anaerobic sealers overnight will not change how they seal. It's also why what oozes out rarely ever dries and stays gooey. In other words they seal when the bolts are tightened during reassembly.
I have used these products for years without issue. However it is very important for the surfaces to be clean and free of any oil. Not even a light film of oil can be left on the two mating surfaces. The key here is clean and dry. Even the bolt holes on both the final drive and the steering clutch housings have to be clean and dry. No oil can get on the sealer or it will not seal. Thus a leak will ensue. I always wait until the very last thing before the reinstall to apply the 515. I also use a good evaporative brake cleaner to clean the surfaces and the bolt holes before I apply the sealer. I always use compressed air to blow the bolt holes out to make sure there is no oil hiding in them. Then it is also important to watch the final drive when you hang it upright to do the reinstall. Sometimes a little bit of oil will escape around the bottom bearing and contaminate the sealer. This is why I wait until the very last to apply the sealer. I always clean the bearings and blow them out dry the same as the bolt holes. The key here is to make sure no oil what so ever gets on the sealer as you reassemble the two components together.
Silicone and other sealers will give you the same results. You can't let any oil or liquid of any kind get on these sealers. They will leak every time.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

cantbeatadeere
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Post by cantbeatadeere » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:30 pm

You are correct Leonardl....it was at the thin area at the bottom, one side has been disassembled cleaned and re-assembled so far---second time a charm ????

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LeonardL
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Post by LeonardL » Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:51 am

As they say... I've been there and done that. :D Sorry again you had to disassemble and go again. That's never fun.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

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Tigerhaze
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Post by Tigerhaze » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:32 pm

I agree with Leonard's experiences- although my experience with sealants has been more with cars and trucks than crawlers I go through the steps that Leonard described and have not had leaks occur except when oil contaminated the sealant as the part was assembled.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Tjgerow
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Re: oil leak---HELP

Post by Tjgerow » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:00 am

I pulled the final drives off my 350c to clean out a lot of debris that was apparently left in them after clutches were replaced, and there was a lot of water in the hydraulic fluid.

On re-assembly is there a preference for what to use as a gasket maker between the clutch housing and final drive housing?

Loctite 515 and "The Right Stuff" are mentioned in multiple threads.

The person I bought the dozer from used Indian Shellac on pretty much everything and I must say, there weren't any oil leaks.

Thanks,
Tom
1978 350CE Dozer, 6-way blade

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LeonardL
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Re: oil leak---HELP

Post by LeonardL » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:26 am

Tom, Any good Anaerobic sealer will work fine. It doesn't have to be the Locktite brand at all. Some folks have even used silicone but I have seen it fail after a little time passes so I personally would not use it. Your biggest issue on these housings is getting them clean and dry. Then when you do apply the anaerobic sealer go ahead and install the parts together. It is the compression of bolting the two halves together that makes the sealer do its thing. I have let the Jell type anaerobic sealer sit overnight and it was still okay but it is recommended that you go ahead and reassemble as soon as it is applied.

I'm not sure I know what Indian Shellac is. It may very well be the same thing. Some of these other guys may have heard of it. So I may learn something here as well. It sounds like something I would use on an old piece of furniture. :D
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

njoldiron
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Re: oil leak---HELP

Post by njoldiron » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:59 pm

Indian shellac is a permatec product that is alcohol based. It has been around for a long time. Before silicone I think. I like to use it as a gasket adhesive because it is sticky and holds the gasket in place. Also the gasket will not slide when you are tightening down like with silicone.

njoldiron
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Re: oil leak---HELP

Post by njoldiron » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:05 pm

Used to have a head of a indian chief's shape on the bottle. Probably not politically correct now and now that I think about it the last bottle I bought did not

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LeonardL
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Re: oil leak---HELP

Post by LeonardL » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:20 pm

Okay I know what you're talking about now. I would say it would work. If it didn't leak before then I would say it did the job it was supposed to do. There are a few different anaerobic sealers some or jells which I personally like because it stays where I put it. Others are more liquid and have a tendency to run or drip off.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

Tjgerow
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Re: oil leak---HELP

Post by Tjgerow » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:56 am

The shellac at AutoZone still has the indian head on it.

For the Right Stuff in the cheese whiz can, do you get the grey or black?
1978 350CE Dozer, 6-way blade

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