Reverser Pump and Steering?

[CuttingEdge]

A strange issue came up today.

I pulled the engine out of my dozer a few weeks ago and as time allowed I fixed issues since everything was out and it was easy to get at. I changed all the filters, oil, etc including the Reverser Filter that is 3 feet inside a dozer that is only 6 feet wide. A fine place to change out a filter I will add...

Now everything is back together and the tractor is sounding, running, and acting beautiful...except the steering clutches. They work...it is just that there is no "feel" in the levers. I pull back on them with no resistance, like they are floppy or something, then they grab and it turns the dozer whichever way I want. This did NOT happen before. The levers had some "feel"; some resistance against them. Now...nothing.

Now I know the Reverser Pump on a 350D sends fluid back to the clutches, so my question is, is this oil not flowing back to my clutches making it act this way? Or was the clutches just adjusted for that nasty oil and clogged reverser filter?

I do not dare operate it this way as i do not want to ruin my clutches that is for sure. Any ideas?

[pondhogvt]

Hey, buddy I haven't heard from you in a while did you get that other problem fixed? on your 350D... this could be a long shot but I have seen it before.. sometimes on a complete oil drain and change,, air gets trapped and cycled through the system and acts funny for alittle while,,, on a 450C same type of system.. I would run the dozer at Idle in neutral clutch out... and just cycle the steering lever handles in and out for awhile... then if I felt a skip or blurp in the lever I would increase the throttle to just a little over Idle 1200rpm and keep cycling the levers in and out without pushing any dirt,, still neutral... and as the air works its way out the feeling of clutch and brake returns and then back to work.. long shot but still a possibility.. good luck Mark.

[CuttingEdge]

Hey Mark, I thought about calling you, but figured you were pushing dirt somewhere with the slow wet start on the season so I did not want to bother you. Not sure if you are still interested, but a couple of gravel pits are up for sale around me that you might be interested in. Pretty cheap at $1000 an acre. One is 100 acres and the other is 60 acres, I am not sure of the depth, but my gravel pit averages 32 feet deep, so it adds up. Quality varies of course, but mine does not have to be screened because it has few rocks over 4 inches in diameter, but still meets Federal specs. I built a federally funded road this summer and the State's Federal Soil Engineer approved my gravel pit.

You might be more right then wrong on my bulldozer though; I put a tester on the port going to the clutches and it shows 30 PSI. It should range between 17-32 PSI so I should be good there. It at least told me that my clutches are getting supplied with oil.

I might run it then knowing it might be air. The trouble shooting section of the book says adjusting the valve that is located underneath might help as well. I am a little gun-shy on adjusting that, but I might have too. It might have been part of the problem from the beginning.

Not sure when I am getting down your way again. I know Katie is headed to our house in New Hampshire in two weeks. I might go, I might not...I am not sure. Lobsters are way down on price right now as I bought some last week for $3.49 a pound and I know of a earth contractor that likes them, so a few could make the trip with me and make their way over to Bernieville (what I call Vermont).

[CuttingEdge]

One step forward and two steps back...

You were right PondHogVT, the steering issue was just air built up in the reverser, but sadly changing out the nasty ole filter did not do the tractor much good; the reverser still is heating up. I was getting a bit of delay in the shuttling of going back and forth so I shut it down before it stopped moving anymore. The reverser was also getting hotter as I went.

The interesting thing is, I had the radiator fixed just before this problem took over, and the repair (not a recore) was down low, but I cannot imagine there was anyway heat could have somehow stopped the oil cooler function of the reverser could it? The only reason I even bring this up is because of the timing of it. Tractor is fine, get a radiator leak fixed, then suddenly the reverser is heating up.

Or are the clutches slipping and heating the oil up?

[pondhogvt]

Normally heat is caused by the clutches slipping and generating a lot of heat to the oil in the reverser,,

but just so I am clear,, was the motor temp getting hot because of a leaky radiator??

If motor gets hot so will tranny oil,, they are both cooled thru the radiator.. if you lose fluid they both get hot,, reverser is a separate sealed part of radiator so coolant doesn't mix with oil of course,, but if there is no or low coolant they both get hot together...

the problem with heat in a tranny is it bakes all the O-rings if prolonged and then you have new problems.

Internally I have never cut a 350 radiator open so I do not know what part of the radiator is dedicated to just the reverser..

does the 350D have a reverser-tranny oil temp gauge like the 450's do?

have you put a pressure gauge on the reverser regulator to be sure ?.. low pump pressure will make clutches slip and get hot and then ruined...

please advise me ... Mark

[CuttingEdge]

No the engine is not heating up at all; heck it does not even get in the green on the temperature gauge even if you run the tractor all day.

It could be the clutches slipping and heating the oil, it just seemed strange to me the tractor was fine, then I had the radiator fixed, and now the reverser is heating up, that is all. Maybe it is just a coincidence. I suppose I could tell easy enough if I got a transmission cooler and positioned it in front of the radiator and hooked the hoses up to it. It would look like a wart on a pretty girls face, but would tell me what the trouble was...and be a super cooler even if I did have to rebuild the reverser clutches.

No temperature gauge on the reverser like on a 450 though. I could install one easy enough though.

Pressures are fine, but I wondered if adjusting the engagement timing might help. There is a lag between going forward and reverse. I have no idea how to do that, other than what the book says.

[CatD8RII]

I know you said you have checked pressures, but have you checked the oil pressure going to the cooler? There is a regulating valve that controls flow through the cooler. To check you need to install a gauge in the supply line going to the cooler. The 2 on the left side that you had to disconnect to pull your engine. Maybe something got hung up in the valve during the oil change? If there isn't enough oil flow through the cooler, it's gonna heat up. Also, there is a rate of shift screw/orifice that adjusts the shift "timing". Its down bottom on the control valve with the other valves. Is your shifting decent when warm? Or is screwy when cold?

[CuttingEdge]

I saw in the chart where originally there was a test port, but mine must have been reconfigured at some point because that is now gone. I might add it back in with a temperature/pressure gauge going up in the dash. Not really a thing for 350D purists, but I plan to own and work this dozer for awhile, so I would rather know what is going on at a glance, then have a machine as the factory envisioned.

To that end I think I figured out what the problem was, though people on here will now FOTMAKMTIFBSS (fly out to Maine and kick my teeth in for being so stupid)... I reread the service manual a few times and realized if the oil went from the cooler, to the regulating valve, then the restricting orifice, and finally to the clutches to cool them, the opposite would be true if the flow was opposite. In other words when I removed the radiator and had it fixed, I swapped the lines when I put them back in. They are on right now and the machine is working.

Still...and this will cause purists of the famed 350D to FOTMAKMTIFBSS again, but I ordered a transmission cooler online and am waiting for it to show up. I got a H7B Tru-Cool Transmission Cooler which has 24,500 BTU's at 11 X 11 x 1-1/2 inches. Total cost with shipping was $81.00 and is labeled for industrial applications. I talked with a transmission repair shop and this is what the guy sells and recommends. Other coolers are cheaper, but he said these are tough. I will see...eighty one bucks? Cheap insurance I thought.

[CatD8RII]

Glad you found it. BTW there actually is no port per say, you have to tee into the lines going to/from the cooler. Not a bad job, you just need a piece of hose and a tee fitting with a barb fitting on the other end. I'd be curious to see what temperature the reverser runs at before and after you do the cooler install.

[pondhogvt]

Glad you found the problem,, I actually didn't think it mattered which way the oil went throught the cooler as long as it went thru.. good to know.. sometimes the simplest things mess you up... Mark..

[CuttingEdge]

Well I am not 100% sure that was the problem because it does not make sense to me either, a check valve would have to be in the radiator somewhere for line-swapping problem to make a difference, and I do not see one in the charts. Maybe on my test run all the stars lined up just right and the reverser did not get hot for whatever reason?

I might have some time today to fuss with it. I wanted to get out and see you as Katie and the kids are in New Hampshire for the weekend. I had every intention too, but if you saw my other post; health wise I took a turn for the worse on Friday and had to take it easy this weekend. Taking it easy and my in-laws do not fit in the same sentence, but you met them so you know what but I mean. But if I don't survive this, give Katie a decent price for my bulldozer, and tell your boy you know where there is a young widow who is good looking and has some acreage.

[CuttingEdge]

I know you said you have checked pressures, but have you checked the oil pressure going to the cooler? There is a regulating valve that controls flow through the cooler. To check you need to install a gauge in the supply line going to the cooler. The 2 on the left side that you had to disconnect to pull your engine. Maybe something got hung up in the valve during the oil change? If there isn't enough oil flow through the cooler, it's gonna heat up. Also, there is a rate of shift screw/orifice that adjusts the shift "timing". Its down bottom on the control valve with the other valves. Is your shifting decent when warm? Or is screwy when cold?

The shifting is really good when it is cold, but as the reverser heats up, the delay between forward and reverse gets longer. That was when I reach down and touch the reverser to kind of gauge by feel how hot it is, or if it is getting progressively worse.

That way of measuring is now over. I spent some time today installing two gauges in the dash, a pressure gauge going to the reverser cooler, and a temperature gauge as well. I actually took my time and the gauges look almost factory in the dash.

All pressures are really good. The reverser line going to the cooler is at 100 PSI which is where it should be.

I have my aux reverser cooler mounted, but I think I will do as you say first and run this for awhile and see what the real temperature is like. Then I can see how it runs after I plumb up the auxiliary cooler. I have no illusions of festooning this tractor with gauges, but having a temperature gauge for the reverser is something that is good to know from the tractor seat even if it is running perfect. And a pressure gauge will let me know what the reverser pump is doing.In that regard, right now its nice to know it is not showing any signs of wear.

[pondhogvt]

So Travis is the dozer figured out.. sorry to hear that health issue I hope it turns out not so bad..It took me awhile to find your other post to see what you were talking about... But I did notice a pretty new Husqvarna that your wife was posing with.. have you had goodluck with that saw?? in your other picture I saw a stihl so just wondering.. My dealer told me 2 yrs. ago to stay away and buy a stihl.. well yesterday he said husky has finally resolved the problems.. so just wondering on your opinion... because I read the husky had great ergonomics.. and that would really help my arthritis.. it seems a saw is hard on the hands.. I am much older than you so look at the bright side.. now everyday you wake up with new pains that weren't there yesterday!! A little humor there.. best of luck to you and your family... Mark.

[CuttingEdge]

I would say everything you were told was true.

The Stihl is a better saw in my opinion, and longevity wise I think it will hold up better. It has more lugging power and seldom stalls out in the cut, where as the Husky turns faster, but must be razor sharp and does tend to bog down while cutting. Granted my Stihl is 76 cc and the Husky is only 62 cc...

But without a doubt the Husky has a far better suspension. It is also lighter and gets a lot better gas consumption per cord cut. It also cost only $750 out the door while the Stilh was $1,100 out the door. That is a pretty big difference...

As for the quality, I was told what you were told.The first Husky auto-tune saws had a lot of problems and this extended up until June 2016. After that the auto-tune 2.0 came out and they are really good. I am not a big fan of new fangled garbage, but I like the auto-tune because I am kind of lax on gasoline-oil mixtures. If my gas jug has 1/4 left in it, I just fill it with gas for the next day, then dump in the 2 stroke oil amount I think is right. So I fire the saw up in the morning, it bogs out for the first 30 seconds, finds its ideal setting with the gas it is getting, then runs optimally all day long. I like that. I REALLY like that.

I do need to get my old saw repaired though. The hardwood saw log market just came back and so the big trees I have been saving will soon becoming down and I'll want my big saw for them. They are building a few new mills here in Maine and the Government is really trying to get the forest products industry going again. We will see, they have got a lot of ground to cover because those old paper mills were consuming 800-1000 cords of wood per day. I don't care who you are, that is a lot of wood.

[CuttingEdge]

health wise mark, I am alright. I have my good days, and I have some bad ones. They are going to slit my throat in any case and take my Thyroid out completely. Not a lot of fun, but ever since my logging accident where I injured my Pituitary Gland I got to be on medication anyway, so i minds well just have more of it and be done with my Thyroid Issue as well.

It sucks getting old.