Track questions

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milkie62
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Track questions

Post by milkie62 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:05 pm

I have heard that there are aftermarket tracks available for some dozers. There is a farm about 10 miles from me that I buy sweet corn from. The farmer has a JD 450C sitting in the barn that has not moved in a few years. It looks like in decent shape but the pads seem fairly worn and not much of a cleat left. If the dozer is in decent shape other than the tracks and such would it be feasible to just change the tracks,sprockets and associated parts and be done with that part for yrs down the road and have those parts in good shape. I know it would cost some money but my thinking if the dozer has been under cover all these years and the engine and clutches are in god shape along with low hrs wouldn't I be further ahead ? I guess I may be thinking out loud or wishful thinking that I might get it reasonable if it might be for sale in the future. Thanks for any input .

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jsal
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Re: Track questions

Post by jsal » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:12 am

may be able to replace just pads or weld on grouser bar if every thing else is in fair shape .

JIM

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CuttingEdge
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Re: Track questions

Post by CuttingEdge » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:26 am

My limited understanding of bulldozers is this;the condition of tracks to final drives is proportional to its worth. In other words if the final drives are in really good shape,but the tracks are shot, it probably is worth fixing up. And so too is the tractor if its tracks are in good shape, but the final drives need work. BUT if the tracks AND final drives need work, it probably is best to walk away from the bulldozer.

My 350D bulldozer got after market tracks called V-Track for $4301.00 (including 5% Maine sales tax) for chains, 10 rollers, 2 sprockets, and track pads. It did not include tensioners ($800) and idlers ($2000 since there are no after market idlers available fro John Deere 350's). Being a 450 your tracks will be a bit more of course, but they are available.

One problem with sitting bulldozers is that their o-rings get dry when they sit a long time since. I have seen many bulldozers sit for years, only to be started up and driven, and soon they are leaking oil almost as fast as oil can be dumped into them. But what can a person do? I cannot afford to buy a new bulldozer at $105,000, so I work on them instead. Is it worth it? I think so. I keep a computerized list of every issue my dozer has, and slowly work on its problems. It seems sometimes I make 2 steps back for every one forward, but in a year and a half of owning it, the machine is slowly improving.

As for ownership itself...this small bulldozer does a lot of work in a given day and I have never regretted buying it. But keep in mind, I also like working on things.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

B Town
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Re: Track questions

Post by B Town » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:19 am

Milkie62- your scenario is very similar to mine and the circumstances around me getting a 450c track loader. 16 yrs ago my Dad and i were at a consignment sale. 450c trackloader was on the sale, sprockets were flat, bushings broke through. But rest of the tractor looked great, not leaks, originsl parts, motor-trans-reverser were strong, no excessive wear. It was obvious why it was at the consignment sale-bad u/c. Original hour meter was at ~4,000, which made since with the condition of the U/C. The people that owned it could financially justify hiring the U/C done, as the cost if parts and labor would equal or surpass the value of the tractor. But if you do the work yourself and don't have any major suprises, you are golden.

Dad and i struck an agreement. He buys the tractor. I buy the U/C and do the installation. After the repairs, we used the loader to work in the farm.

B Town
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Re: Track questions

Post by B Town » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:22 am

Meant to type original paint. The wet clutch C series are desirable. Make certain it is a true C and not an imposture. Complete aftermarket U/C with pads ,no labor, is going to be 6-8,000.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: Track questions

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:32 am

Hi,

Remember all the u/c parts wear everywhere at the same rate. The pins inside the bushings; the outside of the bushings on the sprocket teeth; the chain links on the rollers and the idlers; and, finally, the pads and grousers on the ground.

There is very little wear in terms of dimensions before one hits 100% worn. Most folks seriously underestimate the wear and so seriously overestimate the percentage of life left in an undercarriage. I see ads almost daily for 50-75% life left in a u/c. And what I translate that into is that the tracks stay on half to three quarters of the time! :P

Silly thought, yes. However, you are very likely to have to replace it all on both sides and that is where these high cost figures are coming from.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
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B Town
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Re: Track questions

Post by B Town » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:40 am

Stan- I couldn't agree more. If you are going to jump into the crawler realm, do the complete U/C. More $$ , but "set it and forget it". Should be good for 3-4,000 hours depending on conditions, up keep, maintenance. Bruce

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77 Ford
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Re: Track questions

Post by 77 Ford » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:13 am

I would measure the stretch in the links, that is the only way to know what percent of life is left. The pads can be very worn and still do a fairly decent job. I think someone replaced my links and used old pads, my stretch indicated I had 50% - 60% left in my chains while my pads are fairly worn down. I still get all the traction I need.
JD- 450C track loader
Serial #208336T

charlie3933
40C crawler
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Re: Track questions

Post by charlie3933 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:58 pm

jsal wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:12 am
may be able to replace just pads or weld on grouser bar if every thing else is in fair shape .
Where can you buy grouser
bars?

JIM

charlie3933
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Re: Track questions

Post by charlie3933 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:00 pm

Where would one buy grouser bars?

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CuttingEdge
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Re: Track questions

Post by CuttingEdge » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:36 am

I disagree on productivity and worn track shoes. I concede that a bulldozer can still get a lot done with worn track shoes, but it is such a gradual decline that it is not really noticed until new grouser pads are installed. Only when a bulldozer has new grousers is it realized how much traction was lost.

Like anything, welding on grouser bars will help, and is cheaper to do, but get comfortable because it takes a lot of welding to get done. Myself, a retired welder/machinist, I prefer to replace track pads rather then weld them up, but that is just me. That is because after-market new grouser pads cost around $25 a piece.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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jsal
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Re: Track questions

Post by jsal » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:04 am

I did a google growser bar search and and netted few suppliers Titus Steel, Dura Tuff
JIM

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amos
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Re: Track questions

Post by amos » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:27 am

There are 36 track shoes on each side plus 4 track shoe bolts and nuts(special hardened steel) per shoe. Unless you have the patience of a rock and a very high torque impact wrench you will be cutting all of the track shoe bolts to get the old shoes off.Prices for track shoes(16" wide btw) are all over the place with those from India being cheapest and USA made being the more expensive. Bolts and nuts are the same: .50 to 2.50 per depending on where they are made. All I can say is buyer beware as cheap is usually cheaply made with weak steel alloy etc.
But: worn shoes usually(but not always) mean a high hour rail group: sprockets worn,front idler worn,bottom rollers worn top roller worn chain worn etc.
I would suggest a close inspection of the track and rail group by someone familiar with tracked equipment and also tell them what you will be using the machine for. Light clearing doesn't need a track group that will push a 8,000 pound dirt or stone load.
On my 450C I paid $2700.00 for it and it was running but immobile and partially dis-assembled and off in the woods to boot(heck of a job getting it to and onto a trailer):owner bit off more than he could do on repairs.Engine is strong with 45 PSI oil pressure,no blowby or overheat issues. Once I repaired the linkages the HLR tranny works as it should.Cylinders are some good and some scored with all leaking(working on those). Track and rail group is mixed:new rollers,idlers,chains,sprocket but shoes are shot.
So if you get yours cheap enough (under 3 to 4 grand) you have room for 3 to 6 grand in repairs without exceeding average retail of $14,000.00
Jim's idea of welding on grouser extensions is a good one if the rest of the track and rail group is 50% or greater,particularly remaining thickness of the shoes themselves. It's a lot of work to do if everything else is very worn.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

milkie62
420 crawler
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Re: Track questions

Post by milkie62 » Sat May 18, 2019 10:04 pm

B Town wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:40 am
Stan- I couldn't agree more. If you are going to jump into the crawler realm, do the complete U/C. More $$ , but "set it and forget it". Should be good for 3-4,000 hours depending on conditions, up keep, maintenance. Bruce
I know its been awhile since I did this thread but it is spring auction time and see dozers popping up here and there. I am in total agreeance with Bruce and would not have a problem doing a complete undercarriage and forget it for the next 3000 hrs or so.Use to be a machine tool mechanic so I would assume I could do a lot of the work myself.

milkie62
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Re: Track questions

Post by milkie62 » Sat May 18, 2019 10:05 pm

Trying to find an average $14k machine doers not seem to happen in my area. Are the 450C models the farthest back best ones to have ?

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