1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
Post Reply
User avatar
alldaysit
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:29 pm

1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by alldaysit » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:31 pm

Well, I had the Dozer at a pretty steep angle because I was stuck. I eventually backed out of the hole after I heard a hiccup from the motor.

It knocked intermittently on the way back to the shed. I got it home and it keeps getting louder. When I start it up, it does not immediately knock, it takes a few seconds for it to start knocking. It had oil but it soon overheated. Now upon startup white smoke billows out of it for a while and the knocking is very loud. It sounds like it's coming from just below the heads? I took the valve cover off and everything looks good and is tight under there. The push rods are in good shape.

I have no idea the number of hours on the thing as the hour meter quite working who knows when, at 5500.

Is there a way to check compression on this motor before I take the head off? I kind of would like to buy a rebuild kit so when I take it apart I could just put everything back together again, but I don't know the rod bearing wear to order proper size. It definitely has no power. It still runs but it don't sound good.

Any suggestions, ideas or anything at all would be very helpful. Thanks for letting me post and welcoming me to the forum as this is my first post. Hope to hear from you and thanks.

User avatar
gregjo1948
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 1000
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA

Re: 1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:26 am

White smoke makes me think faulty head gasket. Have you checked the coolant level? I also wondering if the turbo failed.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

User avatar
alldaysit
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: 1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by alldaysit » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:38 am

The coolant level is down.

B Town
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: 1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by B Town » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:37 am

Welcome, sorry to hear about your misfortune. Sounds like you have a couple things going on. The steep angle, then knocking in the low end with those estimated hours sure is suspicious for a spun bearing. Quite while oil is cold, louder as the oil warms. Stop now. Maybe the journal is still useable. Belly pan, oil pan has to come off. Caps will have to come off. New brgs, clean-clean-clean, torque clean new brgs in dry with plastigauge. If the journal is not scored and measures good with the plastigauge, remove brgs, lube and re-torque.
I agree the white smoke and low coolant sounds like a head,head gasket issue. Look over the fan, water pump seal and brging closely. If brging is bad, seal will leak, esp if you are nose down an incline.
If you are lucky maybe an in-frame major overhaul, dont waste your time on an underhaul-head has to come off anyway, vs out of frame major vs engine swap with used or remanufactured engine. Good luck, Bruce

B Town
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: 1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by B Town » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:39 am

After re-reading your OP, i would definitely start with the head, but if you don't find and obvious cause for the knock, go to the lower end.

User avatar
alldaysit
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: 1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by alldaysit » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:22 am

B Town wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:37 am
Welcome, sorry to hear about your misfortune. Sounds like you have a couple things going on. The steep angle, then knocking in the low end with those estimated hours sure is suspicious for a spun bearing. Quite while oil is cold, louder as the oil warms. Stop now. Maybe the journal is still useable. Belly pan, oil pan has to come off. Caps will have to come off. New brgs, clean-clean-clean, torque clean new brgs in dry with plastigauge. If the journal is not scored and measures good with the plastigauge, remove brgs, lube and re-torque.
I agree the white smoke and low coolant sounds like a head,head gasket issue. Look over the fan, water pump seal and brging closely. If brging is bad, seal will leak, esp if you are nose down an incline.
If you are lucky maybe an in-frame major overhaul, dont waste your time on an underhaul-head has to come off anyway, vs out of frame major vs engine swap with used or remanufactured engine. Good luck, Bruce
Thanks Bruce. I have a couple questions for you. Do you mean a main crankshaft bearing may have spun? I have the belly pan off and to get the oil pan off it looks like I have to remove a section of steel pipe from the hydraulic case. So, I think I have to drain the coolant to take the head off, drain the oil, and the drain the hydraulic fluid to move that steel line.

I read about plastigauge but don't know how to put it on the journal.

If I get the pan off, can I then access these parts to measure the exact overhaul kit I may need.

Thanks in advance.

I need to get some bins to hold liquid.

User avatar
alldaysit
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: 1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by alldaysit » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:31 am

This is a video of the knocking I took.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSFjMy0tcIw

B Town
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: 1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by B Town » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:29 am

Oh no!! That is hammering pretty bad in the video. Start with the coolant and the head. If no obvious source of knocking, head to the oil pan. I didn't need to remove a hydraulic steel line to get my pan off. You should be able to sneak around the pan and line with a swizel or whobbly socket.
Rod bearings are more likely to spin the mains. Don't worry about the plastigauge. Your problem will be obvious, I fear you are headed for a out-of-frame or a replacement. Bruce

User avatar
alldaysit
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: 1980 Deere 450C with 4219Turbo .... loud knocking and white smoke

Post by alldaysit » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:48 pm

I will try and get to the head on Sunday. Thanks for the help this far, I really appreciate it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 47 guests