350 reverser

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gregjo1948
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350 reverser

Post by gregjo1948 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:00 pm

My 350 goes forward and backward as it should until it gets warmed up to working temp. Then reverse slips so bad it won't move.
I removed the plug in the control valve housing that is for pressure testing the clutch oil regulator valve and got no pressure. I do have pressure where I did the lube regulating valve test. Can anyone tell me why I don't have pressure for the clutch oil regulator valve? Thanks, gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

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CuttingEdge
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by CuttingEdge » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:13 am

I have been battling this same problem all summer.

First, if you have not already, change out the hydraulic filter on the reverser. It is $9 bucks from John Deere, but either way get lots of extensions or grow long arms because it is 3 feet deep on a 6 foot wide bulldozer! I did this on mine and I would say 90% of the problem went away. I still think I need to adjust some pressures to get it running perfectly, but it is a lot better now.

If you have a tech book you should know the pressures and the test points, as there are three on a 350D anyway, Testing the pressure of the lube line will tell you if the transmission pump is good. It should run 103 PSI at full throttle.

From everything I read, if you do not have any pressure on your clutch test port then it is either a clogged filter not allowing enough oil into the reverser to function properly, or you have a piece of debris in the restricting orifice.

On my bulldozer I installed two new gauges in the dash that allow me to monitor the reverser better, a pressure gauge that will tell me if the lube pump is wearing out, and a temperature gauge. The former is not all that important, but the temperature gauge is nice since the 450's come with them, and about every new bulldozer built today. After an hour of heavy dozing of dirt (shuttling back and forth) it gets up to 140 degrees.

I also added a Tru-Cool transmission cooler to better cool the reverser. Now that I know the reverser runs at 140 degrees, I can see how cool it runs with a 24,000 BTU cooler attached to it. Running cooler certainly will not hurt because of the way the Tru-Cool transmission cooler works, and it was only $81 with shipping. The cooler was suggested by a transmission shop that knew bulldozers well and recommended the rugged construction of the Tru-Cool brand of cooler.

(BTW: changing the hydraulic filter was not my idea, but came from a person in a private message on this site so he gets the credit for that)
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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gregjo1948
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by gregjo1948 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:13 am

Thanks for the reply Cutting Edge. My filter is new. I have a 350B service manual and it says 20-30 psi @ 2650 rpm for lube oil pressure. I haven't put a gauge on it. I just popped the pipe plug out and stuck a finger on it at idle rpm to be sure it had pressure. Do you think it should have 103 psi like the 350D or the 20-30 psi like the 350B ? If there's debris in the restricting orifice, how could I get it out?
Thank you, gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

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CuttingEdge
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by CuttingEdge » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:58 am

Kind of; the lube oil pressure should be 103 PSI before the Lube Regulating valve and 32 PSI after it. According to the book a person should check the pressure going to the cooler first because that will indicate what the pump is doing, BUT since there is no ready spot to tap into, everyone goes back to the easy to access pipe plug on top of the reverser. That is kind of a short cut because if the pressure is good there, then the pump has to be doing its job. The problem with that is, guys like me put a pressure gauge on that port, see it is 32 PSI, and freak out when they read the lube oil pressure should be 103 PSI.

As a side note, I installed my new lube oil pressure gauge going to my cooler because I wanted to know what my pump was putting out and did not want to possibly think the problem was a transmission pump when in reality the issue was a problem with the lube regulating valve.

What is the shifting like when you start your tractor cold? It should engage pretty quick. If it is not, first try going underneath your tractor and backing off the restricting orifice.

I hope guys like PondHogVT and others will jump in and help you out better than me. I just struggled through this until I got my tractor running better, but they know what they are doing on adjustments and stuff.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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gregjo1948
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by gregjo1948 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:29 am

Thanks CE... I think I'll check the restricting orifice for debris and play with the adjustment to see if I can improve the problem.
gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

350strait
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by 350strait » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:07 pm

If your 350b is like my 350 strait, my book says to check the 120 lb first, then if its good go the the 25 lb then the 80 lb. The 120 port is located above the forward/reverse valve. On mine its the second one back, the first one is the 25, My book says that you need to have good pressure at the 120 first. I just went through my reverser, started as the front pump seal leaking that led to a sheared front bearing on the output shaft, after that we could not get the 120 lbs so it was on to the pump gears, then after replacing them we were close but not quite there, so it was take the reverser out again, and take it compleatly apart again, and what an old dealership mechanic told me was check for wear inside the housing that the pistons ride inside of, and yes it was a worn housing. There are steel rings that seal inside the housing to the pistons that put pressure against the clutch plates, wear meant fluid leaking past the pistons and the mechanic said you need at least 75 to 85 PSI against the clutch pack to overcome the 25 PSI system just to move the dozer. I have been chasing this problem for several months now. If I remember there is a old post that explained the pressure test ports, search for reverser. Hope this might help.
JD 350 strait, Kubota B-21 (TLB), Ford 445 (TLB)

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gregjo1948
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by gregjo1948 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:16 am

Thanks 350strait. I've already replaced the housings. I'm obviously not getting enough pressure to my reverse clutch. I haven't figured out why.
gregjo1948
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

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CuttingEdge
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by CuttingEdge » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:01 am

Thank you 350Straight for your experience. I have been a few months myself chasing down this issue so it is nice to know I am not alone.

In my situation it does not seem like I have as a bad an issue as you Gregjo1948 so I am glad someone else chimed in. When I changed my hydraulic filter 90% of the problem went away. It is raining today so I am going to fuss with some clutch settings just to get the shifting back to ideal, but it is running just fine now.

But mine is also a 1988 350D so it is the latest model they made, and seldom worked. The original owner built subdivision roads so all the bulldozer did was push gravel for roads. You can tell because it is not all welded up. So I don't think it has a lot of wear on the reverser yet at 3400 hours. But it is good to know where the parts that wear are. I still have not put the hood and nose cone back on for fear that I have not fully fixed the problem yet. It looks like the biggest redneck bulldozer in Maine right now, but is running strong.

Just funny how so many of us have had this same problem this summer.

Image
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: 350 reverser

Post by Lavoy » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:31 am

Just a wild thought, but what if one of the O-rings from the valve body is leaking or got cut on installation?
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CuttingEdge
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by CuttingEdge » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:07 pm

Adventures in Bulldozing.

I thought I would see if my clutch regulating valve was moving smoothly in its bore and took it out...DO NOT DO THAT. EVER. Even for a Zombie apocalypse.

There was a moment when I was sure I was going to have to pull the reverser to get it back in.I ended up getting Katie's help (no joke) by prying up with a lining bar while I spun the nut. Even then it took us 3 hours to get it back in and a little machining on the nut so that it held the spring in place. I will sell the tractor before I pull that valve again.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: 350 reverser

Post by 350strait » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:03 pm

Looked at trying to look at the reverser control valve with the reverser in, no way in heck. Decided to just take the whole reverser out, and found a round pin about 1.5 in long and .25 across under the clutch spring, no idea where it came from, nothing missing and all parts accounted for it was weird. But I decided to just pull the reverser rather than try to play with trying to get at all the bolts. So I share you pain there.
JD 350 strait, Kubota B-21 (TLB), Ford 445 (TLB)

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CuttingEdge
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by CuttingEdge » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:19 am

Yeah I hear you.

I think my problem is a little different anyway and so I was just trying to adjust my shifting a little bit. It does say in the technical book to remove the reverser and work on it on a bench. Like most things in the technical book, they understated that with an economy of words.

I was surprised how much I had to back the restricting orifice out though. It was a good turn and a half.

I think my issue might be debris working through the system though. I had the same problem as you and Gregjo1948 did in that the oil would get hot and not back up or go forward. Then it went away, but I had tried several things to fix it, now the foot clutch does not disengage at all. From looking at that, that is just a simple spool valve and not much to fix. I can live with that problem though by jut pulling the reverser lever to neutral.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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gregjo1948
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:00 am

CuttingEdge wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:07 pm
Adventures in Bulldozing.

I thought I would see if my clutch regulating valve was moving smoothly in its bore and took it out...DO NOT DO THAT. EVER. Even for a Zombie apocalypse.

There was a moment when I was sure I was going to have to pull the reverser to get it back in.I ended up getting Katie's help (no joke) by prying up with a lining bar while I spun the nut. Even then it took us 3 hours to get it back in and a little machining on the nut so that it held the spring in place. I will sell the tractor before I pull that valve again.
CuttingEdge---On my strait 350, I used a bottle jack to get the valve shim and plug back in. Pumped it up to put slight pressure on the plug threads,
then turned it in with a wrench. I tied the shim to the spring with light test fishing line. My only fear is that the fishing line, with my
luck, will get into the reverser hydraulic system.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

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CuttingEdge
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Re: 350 reverser

Post by CuttingEdge » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:03 pm

I was afraid of that too Gregjo1948...

So what I did...not saying this is a better way, just stating what I did...was to drill out the cap with a #7 drill bit (.201) and then tapped it with a 1/4-20 coarse thread tap. Then I inserted a long 1/4-20 bolt so that it went into the small spring inside the big spring. This kept everything in place. Then once I got it threaded on (Katie pried on the bolt with a lining bar), I then backed out the bolt, cut it shorter, and reinserted it into the hole. Before I did that, I gave it a liberal coating of nail polish (I have not bought thread locker in 20 years, nail polish is the same stuff and costs $1 at the dollar store) to make sure it did not back out.

I could not figure out why John Deere did not machine the but with a way to hold the spring, so I though maybe clearance was an issue inside, so I did not want anything poking through the nut up into the spring area, nor did I want anything contaminating my oil.

One slight admission though; I said a #7 drill, or .201 drill because this is what should be used, but I actually used a .175 drill because my drill press is about .030 out of round.

Again, just the way I did it and not saying this is THE ONLY way to do it.
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: 350 reverser

Post by 350strait » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:43 am

CuttingEdge

Are you talking about the pressure control springs under the reverser case or the control valve assembly bolted to the side of the case? For the center 120 LB control spring with the shims on the bottom of the valve assembly I use a 4 ft bar across the spring cover on the track to get that bugger in place then back turn it a turn to get the threads lined up the start it by hand, once its started I get the bar out of the way and take a wrench to it. I thought you were talking about the whole assembly bolted to the side of the reverser, that"s what I removed the reverser for.
JD 350 strait, Kubota B-21 (TLB), Ford 445 (TLB)

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