450C hydraulic pump removal

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jjgurley
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450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by jjgurley » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:06 pm

I need to rebuild or replace my hydraulic pump (works, but everything is very sluggish). Any one removed one of these things without removing the nose and radiator? I wish the JD Manual offered more detail than "remove pump" :)
1981 450C
6405 #355834

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jsal
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by jsal » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:29 pm

radiator does not have to come out but a lot easier with nose off


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DrLoch
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by DrLoch » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:57 am

If your's is like mine it has a gear pump, an aluminum bodied gear pump at that. They really aren't rebuild able, other than seals if it were leaking externally. Was it making noise when warm and worked hard? As suggested, it's much easier to R & R the pump with the nose off.
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jjgurley
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by jjgurley » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:21 am

My manual says it should be a 15gpm gear pump. It's not leaking or making any noise you can hear over the engine. Is there a way to test the volume/pressure? I just resolved a fuel line issue caused by debris in the tank, so maybe there's a blockage or crimped tube on the route from the pump to the valve.

If I leave a garden hose on the ground, the squirrels fill it with acorns practically overnight.
1981 450C
6405 #355834

B Town
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by B Town » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:14 am

Has the filter in the hydraulic tank been changed/serviced? If this is plugged it can cause slow symptoms. Good luck, Bruce

jjgurley
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by jjgurley » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:58 pm

I don't think the hydraulic return filter can offer much resistance, since it's plumbed in rubber hose from the six-way spools. If there's a filter "inside" the tank, I don't know about it.
1981 450C
6405 #355834

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DrLoch
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by DrLoch » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:48 am

jjgurley wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:21 am
Is there a way to test the volume/pressure?
Short answer, yes. But, most people don't have the correct tools to do it. Would require a flow meter, relief valve so you don't blow it up or shear the shaft, a needle valve to restrict the flow of fluid and a pressure gauge. Would be cheaper to just get a pump.

Look here http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics ... cu\+in/rev
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S Morton
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by S Morton » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:37 am

On my Case 530 Backhoe if it does not have the thinnest hydraulic oil in it then the hoe and loader are very jerky and slow to operate.
Just an idea?

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amos
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by amos » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:04 am

Can be removed with bullnose in place but it is difficult. But removing and re-installing the bullnose can be a bear too if you're not set-up to do it easily.
Here's my thought on the whole question: older unit,hydraulic pump needs attention so I would go whole hog and drop the belly pan and pull the bullnose. But I would then go deep and remove radiator and oil cooler and at least get them flushed/cleaned and leak checked. Ideal time to replace the hoses associated with the radiator and oil cooler located under the oil filter. With radiator off it's also easy to clean front of engine and check for leaks on the timing gear cover.Might as well replace fan belt while it's easy and check fan for stress cracks.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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jsal
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by jsal » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:47 pm

If you go as far as Amos says I suggests you check your steel cooler lines just had a leak on one of my lines nose off and belly pan to do necessary fix
was rusty holes brazed up

JIM

jjgurley
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by jjgurley » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:45 am

I had already looked at the Surplus Center alternatives. Thought I'd wait until I get the thing out and make sure there's not a pinched line or obstruction. They have some lower cost units just under 2.0 cu in that might work, but without the fitting sizes, etc. it's hard to shop seriously. There are after market units all over the web for the low $400s. I wish I could find the actual specs for either the original pump or the after market version.

This machine has apparently had the problem the whole 20 years I've owned it. It's only my neighbor, who used them for a living, that claims it's not "normal". My use consists of rare snow plowing, driveway grading, and fire fighting on our property (very rare). Slow blade motion not that big a deal.
1981 450C
6405 #355834

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amos
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by amos » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:20 am

If your long term plan is to run it until it turns into a boat anchor then not addressing issues makes sense. But machine in good operating condition and well maintained does have value and is worth maintaining. Kicker is parts availability: when parts are no longer available it's time to call it done.
Cat and John Deere are good for 50+ years either with NOS,aftermarket,or good used. Passed on many komatsu's,case,international,and other 2nd tier machines that were 20-30 years old simply because parts were limited or not available.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

StxRancher
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by StxRancher » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:14 pm

I have a 450c dozer and a 310c backhoe. They are very similar if not the same engines. My 310c was leaking badly fromthe "pump", found out it was the steel line going into pump..Disconnected line and welded small crack with mig. Hopefully you dont need to remove pump.

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jsal
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by jsal » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:35 am

Their are seals and seal kits avaialable from JD Parts that would be the most econimal way to go just my two cents.



JIM

jjgurley
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Re: 450C hydraulic pump removal

Post by jjgurley » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:18 am

I've decided the hydraulic action is actually a lot slower than it was before my recent service. During that service, the brakes/clutches were replaced, so all the lines were open for a few months (don't hire a private shop!). My fuel line ended up with a blockage, either from stirring the tank or allowing debris into the open line. Maybe the same thing could happen to the hydraulic line? Any good strategy to test for obstructions in the suction side other than disconnecting it and see how much gravity flow there is?
1981 450C
6405 #355834

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