450C injection pump issues

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tuney443
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450C injection pump issues

Post by tuney443 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:23 am

Just bought another old crawler from a CL find, this time a 1979 450C loader. Seller thought it was sitting for 20 years, winched her home on my bud's Pete recovery truck , put 2 new batteries in her, fired right up after I drained the fuel tank, changed the fuel filter a few times, ran perfect for like 2 hours, then it started.The engine would only run maybe a minute and shut down slowly, the warmer the engine was, the harder to restart.When the engine's cold, it will run longer before dying. Under advice from my JD dealer, I bought a gallon of Deere's overpriced fuel cleaner and ran it straight right out of the bottle running the engine.I'm sure it cleaned up everything but the problem persists.Just tinkering yesterday in frustration, I cracked open what I thought was a bleeder on the injection pump. (Service told me its NOT a bleeder and comes with the tyed wire around the bolt head to prevent dickering).With that open and sputtering out fuel the engine stays running just fine.Within 5-10 seconds of tightening it, then it dies.Also want to mention I changed out the transfer pump and am reading 5 PSI at the filter bleed port. I would like to tackle this myself, just a little leary of getting into that injection pump not knowing much and the need for possible special tools. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Found the skull to the mastodon in Hyde Park, youngest one ever found so far in the world in 2000.

JD35D midi exc.
JD410G TLB
JD450D Dozer
2 JD 440 track loaders
JD 420 track loader
JD 450C track loader

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DrLoch
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by DrLoch » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:23 am

Search mouse turds. Common problem, pellethane ring on governor coming apart probably blocking check valve on top.
450C Track Loader
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amos
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by amos » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:18 am

Morning,
Tried posting earlier and wife interrupted me. Thought I pushed submit but nothing posted so if this comes up twice I am not having a "senior moment" :D
Anyway, defiantly sounds like a bad injection pump. dealer will help guide you but procedure is simple.On left rear side of engine you should find a cover plate with a pin welded to it and held on by one bolt. that is your flywheel indexing pin. With battery disconnected remove plate with pin and look through hole. You will see the flywheel. Hand over engine (you'll have to remove injectors to relieve all compression to do this) until you see a small hole in the flywheel that is the same size as the pin.Align pin with hole and insert. Re-install the bolt to hold in place. Now you are ready to remove injection pump.
Remove the injection pump and on the injection pump drive gear you will see an indexing mark. this mark aligns with a mark on the drive gear associated with the timing gear set.
If you dig deep on the net you may find a new pump that is about the same price as getting your pump re-built.All depends on current market. I had a pump re-built for a 4 cylinder engine a few years ago and if memory serves it was around $400.00.
If it was me I would replace the injectors too. new are cheap at 30-40 per but at the minimum I would get the old ones cleaned and rebuilt.20-30 per.
And the little bolt with the lead wire seal is your governor control. You really don't want to mess with that unless qualified.
Forgetting to remove the flywheel indexing pin before starting after repair is all too common. On the battery cable that was disconnected I put a wire tag with note to check pin before attaching cable. We all forget things now and again after major repairs.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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tuney443
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by tuney443 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:58 pm

Thankyou gentlemen.
Found the skull to the mastodon in Hyde Park, youngest one ever found so far in the world in 2000.

JD35D midi exc.
JD410G TLB
JD450D Dozer
2 JD 440 track loaders
JD 420 track loader
JD 450C track loader

boaterri
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by boaterri » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:34 pm

I recently had my injector pump rebuilt by these people

http://www.bkdiesel.com/shop/roosa-mast ... tion-pump/

Quick service, helpful and from what I have heard not overpriced.

Buy the "Umbrella seal tool" and give them a smear with diesel when you replace them and thread the shaft back into the pump to reinstall.


Rick

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tuney443
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by tuney443 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:24 am

Found a place in Lawrenceville, Georgia--Auto Electric that will rebuild mine for $500.They also have new Stanadyn injectors for $55 ea.
Found the skull to the mastodon in Hyde Park, youngest one ever found so far in the world in 2000.

JD35D midi exc.
JD410G TLB
JD450D Dozer
2 JD 440 track loaders
JD 420 track loader
JD 450C track loader

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DrLoch
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by DrLoch » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:55 pm

boaterri wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:34 pm

Buy the "Umbrella seal tool" and give them a smear with diesel when you replace them and thread the shaft back into the pump to reinstall.


Rick
Very wise suggestion.
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boaterri
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by boaterri » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:29 am

Thanks

Rick

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tuney443
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by tuney443 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:38 pm

That first company I passed on , went to O & C Diesel in Augusta,GA. They rebuilt my pump for $450 and $45 for new injectors. Hopefully, will fire her up manana if all goes well and I don't get any more gelling issues with other iron. BTW, with a little patience and a deft touch, I was able to fairly easily slide the pump over those umbrella seals with no issues.
Found the skull to the mastodon in Hyde Park, youngest one ever found so far in the world in 2000.

JD35D midi exc.
JD410G TLB
JD450D Dozer
2 JD 440 track loaders
JD 420 track loader
JD 450C track loader

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tuney443
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by tuney443 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:57 pm

Well, she runs like a Deere should, no issues other than a few minor leaks which were taken care of. O&C is the cat's AZZ, they earned my biz big time.

On another matter does anyone know how the transmission screen/filter mounting tube comes out of it's perch? I can pull it out 3" or so but then it gets jammed up with some obstacle.Parts manual is showing like a wing on the left side which I don't get.I want to remove it because I want to thoroughly clean the gunk in there after I drained the oil.
Found the skull to the mastodon in Hyde Park, youngest one ever found so far in the world in 2000.

JD35D midi exc.
JD410G TLB
JD450D Dozer
2 JD 440 track loaders
JD 420 track loader
JD 450C track loader

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tuney443
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by tuney443 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Well, I just put that tube back in place, not a big deal as I got all the gunk out woth it in place.Had lots of water in the left steering clutch box, some in the right.Took 5-6 flushings with oil to finally push it all out.The final drive oil was water free, pretty clean at that, all the oils and filters got changed out. Took it out of the shop today after 3 weeks inside, motor runs real strong but the clutch needs attention as does the left steering clutch, hopefully both just need adjusting.
Found the skull to the mastodon in Hyde Park, youngest one ever found so far in the world in 2000.

JD35D midi exc.
JD410G TLB
JD450D Dozer
2 JD 440 track loaders
JD 420 track loader
JD 450C track loader

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tuney443
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by tuney443 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:21 am

Does anyone here know anything about that shroud or baffle on my turbocharger?It is loose and rattles around plus exhaust leaks out all around it.
Found the skull to the mastodon in Hyde Park, youngest one ever found so far in the world in 2000.

JD35D midi exc.
JD410G TLB
JD450D Dozer
2 JD 440 track loaders
JD 420 track loader
JD 450C track loader

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amos
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by amos » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:27 am

When I was reassembling my 450C I noticed the same loose fit. Would seem that an exhaust donut should be used but none available. Asked JD tech and he said it was a sloppy fit but by loosening the turbo mount bolts and the exhaust tube to turbo section you then have enough "slop" in holes to get the parts close together and re-tighten the 8 bolts.
Did that and it cut down on leaks and when things got up to temp it was much better.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

B Town
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by B Town » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:23 am

I'm confused about which shroud or shield you are questioning. The adapter R51736 mates the exhaust side of the turbo to the exhaust elbow. Below operating temperature, this adapter is loose fitting, it will expand quickly with the rise in operating temperature. This expansion will seal the exhaust. If it doesn't seal, it is worn and needs replaced. This adapter should become sold once at operating temperature, no wiggle/rattle/exhaust. This adapter is usually wore out and over looked. Bruce

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tuney443
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Re: 450C injection pump issues

Post by tuney443 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:56 am

I believe the official name in my parts book is baffle.I'll have to look at it more closely to explain furthur.

On a related note--it seems on a C model, the turbo is for HP increasing.On my D dozer, it is an altitude compensating turbo which would make sense because it originally came from out West 34 years ago.Thoughts on that?
Found the skull to the mastodon in Hyde Park, youngest one ever found so far in the world in 2000.

JD35D midi exc.
JD410G TLB
JD450D Dozer
2 JD 440 track loaders
JD 420 track loader
JD 450C track loader

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