new owner with basic questions

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B Town
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: new owner with basic questions

Post by B Town » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:52 pm

By '79, I believe they were common sumps. IIRC, the owners manual suggests filling the rt and lt steering to full then filling the trans. Then operating and topping off the trans fill. Good luck, Bruce

JWedd
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: new owner with basic questions

Post by JWedd » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:33 pm

Thanks Bruce,

Mine must be at transition time...SN 329552 should be a '79. But, none of the sumps are common (when I filled one of the steering clutches, the other remained dry). I did bleed off about 7 gallons of fluid from the HLR, and it is at the correct level now.

I could not find any fill check plug for the steering clutches. I have the owner's manual for an earlier crawler loader (SN 247081), and it shows a photo of the plugs, but on my unit there is only frame. Best I could do on the clutches was measure out 14quarts and dump it in. Where these plugs eliminated on the common sump loaders? It seems like mine should have all the sumps connected with just the dip stick for level check.

John

B Town
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm
Location: Western Iowa

Re: new owner with basic questions

Post by B Town » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:51 pm

My SN search agrees with your, 1979.

Instead of tearing down your machine to look for the common sump conversion changes as outlined in the tech manual(HAHA-just kidding) I would confirm the transmission is at the full mark on the dipstick, the left steering oil level and right steering oil level are up to the top of the fill plug. Then I would only remove the transmission drain plug. Be prepared! If only 8 gallons comes out, you can be assured you have a non-common sump. If you get close to 22 gallons out of the one transmission plug, your case has a common sump.

There is a mis-print in the owners manual regarding the steering case capacity. In the capacity section, in the back, it talks about 14 qts, close to 3 1/2 gals. But on pg 53, top left the manual talks about 7 gals per side. 7 gals in the right, 7 gals in the right, + 8 gals in the the trans= 22 gals. We are getting pretty close to the 24 gals you drained off.

I would encourage you to fill the right steering, left steering cases individually. Then fill the transmission with 8 gal(pg 53 lower right of page). The plug to check the steering cases are the same plugs(1"pipe thread) you fill through, above final drives, slightly in front on the axle. If you do have a common sump case, these plugs are supposed to be sealed, because the level of oil in a common sump transmission case is actually above these steering case fill plugs. This is why I recommended filling the steering cases to the fill plug level(both left and right), replacing the plugs, then filling the transmission case with 8 gals. You should operate for 30-60 minutes the use the dipstick to finish topping off the common sump, of course this will not work with a non-common sump.

I don't believe these plugs were ever deleted. I have checked the parts manual and there is no SN breaks, only one part # for the right then left cases. Your 14 qts are not near enough for the steering clutch cases. FYI, You are probably going have to change these fluids a lot sooner than recommended, b/c of the condition of the oil you removed. I'm sure you have done this, but feel I should mention it. Replace the transmission filter in front of the radiator, and remove, clean and replace the transmission screen on the right lower side of the transmission case. Take care, Bruce

JWedd
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: new owner with basic questions

Post by JWedd » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:33 pm

Bruce, thanks again for the reply. I'm feeling more positive that I have the later common sump version, due to the lack of check plugs for the steering clutch (these are shown on p 49, Section 26, "Steering Clutch Housing Level" for the 1975 450C Crawler Loader owners manual). Different than the fill plugs you mentioned. I did change the filter and clean the strainer.

I ran it for about an hour of light duty with just the 14 qts in each side. So, if the fill plug is actually 'underwater' with fluid, then I'm a bit shy (about 6-7 gallons combined) and I'll get that topped off. I suspect that the dipstick will show low now, with the bleed over that slowly occurred. I was likely impatient, the bleed over did not happen within the first 15 minutes of overfilling the HLR with 15 gallons.

It's inconsistent that the steering clutches on the earlier model are fine with 14qts ea, but the later ones run with 28 qts ea. I suspect this is mostly "convenience" due to the common sump level, and not an actual requirement for operation. It's running just fine. I will get the fluid changed out again soon...also have it parked underneath a shed now, should help some with the moisture.

John

JWedd
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: new owner with basic questions

Post by JWedd » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:51 pm

I checked the HLR fluid level, 5 days later, and absolutely no fluid on dipstick. So, much of it did make its way into the steering clutches.

Once I get this all buttoned down, I'll create a post for common sump 450C draining and filling. There is no way I was prepared for 22+ gallons of hydraulic fluid (either on the drain, or the fill). This will be my 3rd trip to tractor supply for more fluid.

I have seen some posts where 3-4 gallons of fluid is put in the clutches, and then the HLR is brought up to level. That could be dangerous for the HLR after it loses 6 gallons or so to the clutches. Only way to do it somewhat close is as Bruce indicated, top off the steering clutch boxes, then fill the HLR to the high level on the dipstick. That should get it pretty close. Then, it appears to take an hour or more of operation before the true level occurs.

John

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