What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

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CuttingEdge
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What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by CuttingEdge » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:19 pm

What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

For me I guess, it is zero degrees out. My bulldozer (John Deere 350D) starts good without starting fluid down to about 20 degrees, but from 20 degrees down to zero degrees, it requires starting fluid. Anything below that temperature I sit in the house and snuggle up with my coal stove. It just seems at that temperature or below, whatever work I perform will just not be worth the damage that is occurring to the tractor.

That was a rule a construction company had, and a policy I adopted from them.

I always said on my next bulldozer I was going to have a heated cab, and more than once I swore I would build one in the bulldozer I currently have, but need a shop that is tall enough to drive my bulldozer into! Right now I have to remove my ROPS so that I can park it in my barn. It seems I do a lot of fall bulldozing when it it is cold and rainy anyway, much less winter logging.

In any case I was just curious what other peoples Cut-Off Temperature was?
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by Lavoy » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:26 am

I guess I don't have one for the most part. If the job has to be done, it has to be done. Only thing I would do at that temp is moving snow for the most part. I typically don't start any engine below freezing without plugging it in. Yes they will start without, but so much easier on them.
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CuttingEdge
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Re: What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by CuttingEdge » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:04 am

With the exception of not having a heated cab, my bulldozer excels at plowing snow.

I have a half mile of logging road to keep plowed, and on this hill it drifts endlessly. My bulldozer does well at keeping it open, but typically we do not have cold this low for so long. "It always warms up to snow", is a pretty accurate term, except this year!

My tractor takes far too long because it has a bucket and cannot cast the snow aside like a 6 way dozer blade can, and the skidder has a narrow blade that rolls the snow straight under the wide tires. That really sucks. I could pay someone to plow out the road this one time, but I hate spending money on something I can do myself. I just hate the thought of my tracks pounding in the cold, and gears working through all that thick, cold oil. Damage to the engine starting in the cold, damage to the tracks, damage to the final drive train of gears...it almost seems like it is not worth it.

....

Kind of different, but along the same lines, I have a lot of problems with my log loader win the winter due to small hydraulic lines and cold oil. It either means warming up the oil so it works in the winter, of using better viscosity oil. Plow oil here is $12 a quart so I was thinking about just making my hydraulic oil in the winter a 50/50 blend of hydraulic oil/off road diesel fuel. That should work shouldn't it?

(Picture of my Log Loader so you can see what I am referring too)
Image
I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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Re: What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by DrLoch » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:20 am

Hydraulic Oil and Diesel is not a good idea. There are a number of companies that make hydraulic fluid that has the low viscosity index you are looking for at those temperatures. It is generally a Military spec fluid, Castrol is one company that we use that offers a fluid that flows at low temperatures. I can find the spec number if you are interested. Another option would be transmission fluid, or a mixture of transmission & hydraulic fluid.

My Gravely Zero turn recommendation is Mobil One 15W50.
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thomasgranat
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Re: What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by thomasgranat » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:48 am

the jd manual calls for atf at cold temps, it has a low viscosity and the proper additives for hydraulic seals and such. DO NOT put diesel or any engine type oil into a hydraulic system, it will destroy seals and does not lubricate the internals properly.also not a good idea to mix hydro fluids try to stick with one or the other. where I live the primary concern is if the ground condition is unsafe and I could slide or get stuck .

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Re: What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by thomasgranat » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:51 am

that's a sweet logging setup, custom made?

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amos
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Re: What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by amos » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:16 pm

At those low temps:
engine oil 10W-30
Hydraulic oil change to ATF
Final drives use non-detergent straight 30WT
Come spring go back to 303 or hygard for hydraulics
Some dozers use 30WT as standard oil on finals. Check your JD book on that one.
Does your machine still have the thermostat installed? If not install one. Also check your fan to see if it is reversible. If so reverse it and block off a good portion of the grill to restrict air flow to help engine and hydraulics to maintain operating temp.
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Re: What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:43 pm

Hi,

The first thing wrong with fuel in the hydraulics is the base stock for fuels is Napthenic (hydrocarbon chains in a ring formation) and base stock for lubricants is Parafinic (hydrocarbon chains in a ladder formation). The former is great when it comes to combustion and lousy when it comes to lubrication. The opposite is true for the other choice. And, they come from different areas, such as Texas for fuels and Pennsylvania for lubricants for example.

The second thing is that lubricants are only roughly half base stock. The other half are additives for the service application. In this case, anti-oxidants and anti-foaming additives are the most important. Pour in half fuel with the lubricant and I expect you will lose enough of the additives to cause....troubles.

The ATF idea is sound enough. That has so many additives that the list looks much like an encyclopedia. But, I can't think of a single one which would cause trouble in a hydraulic system. And, all the additives hydraulics want are in ATF. More than it needs, to be sure. The only bad thing I can think of is that ATF costs a lot more than hydraulic oil....

Stan
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CuttingEdge
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Re: What is the Cut-Off Temperature for Bulldozers?

Post by CuttingEdge » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:17 pm

thomasgranat wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:51 am
that's a sweet logging setup, custom made?
No, it is just a John Deere 350D coupled to a Wallenstein Log Trailer, though the latter is a misnomer. It is more like a swiss army knife for landowners. You can remove the stakes and put on a dump body, or swap out the grapple for a backhoe...or since the grapple rotates 356 degrees, swap it out for a post hole driller. I fabricated a gooseneck, bolt-on hitch that extends it out so that it makes a really nice grader to smooth out my heavy haul logging roads.

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I have no intention of traveling to my grave in a well manicured body; instead I am going to slide into heaven with a big power turn, totally wore out with busted knuckles, jump off my dozer loudly yelling, Woo Hoo, another Shepard has just arrived!

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