Virginia 450 Help

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amos
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Re: Virginia 450 Help

Post by amos » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:14 pm

Birddog wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:00 pm
Oh wow Ok thats why I asked we may be on to something. Why does my pedal brake work but hand lever doesnt on right side? Must be adjustment issue im not doing properly. Going to machine tomorrow and will see what I can discover.....will report back.
When you pull back on a steering lever you are doing 2 things: releasing the clutch and then engaging the brake band. If you have brake on right side with the foot/parking brake then the brake band is good.
Looks like clutch is not releasing.Back to adjustment.
Try this: pull back hard on right steer lever and depress foot brake at same time. If track tries to stop and engine starts to bog down it's the clutches: either stuck or out of adjustment.
Lets assume the steer clutch is adjusted but still won't release. Find a BIG tree (3' stump).Back up to it and run a 3/8 or larger chain around the base and to your drawbar. Drive forward in low gear and when the chain stops you pull back on both steer levers far enough where clutch should release but not so far as to lock brakes. If clutch is stuck this might pop it loose.
Let us know what you find for sure.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

Birddog
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Re: Virginia 450 Help

Post by Birddog » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:48 am

I GOT IT FIXED!
I found detent. I think that bolt was gummed up from brake dust and dirt. Anyway detent seemed to magically appear and was able to get more turns out of the adjuster bolt. Then readjusted the lever adjustment and started making progress did it all again with a little more shim under the levers anyway got it working sweet!

So now cylinders and uh oh some oil in anti freeze. Hoping not crack anywhere but cylinder head gasket or cooler. Just pressure tested engine oil cooler thats ok. Does the tranny cooler have coolant circuit? Looks like its separate from radiator and just air cooled?

Amos - thank you so much for all the help.
Virginia - 1967 JD 450 - Trackloader - 4n1 - Backhoe

Birddog
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Location: Virginia

Re: Virginia 450 Help

Post by Birddog » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:09 pm

No water contamination in engine oil. Some oil im radiator but not black like engine oil would be. Looks more like what i see when I take tranny cooler filter off.
Virginia - 1967 JD 450 - Trackloader - 4n1 - Backhoe

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amos
1010 crawler
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Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:29 am
Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: Virginia 450 Help

Post by amos » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Birddog wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:48 am
I GOT IT FIXED!
I found detent. I think that bolt was gummed up from brake dust and dirt. Anyway detent seemed to magically appear and was able to get more turns out of the adjuster bolt. Then readjusted the lever adjustment and started making progress did it all again with a little more shim under the levers anyway got it working sweet!

So now cylinders and uh oh some oil in anti freeze. Hoping not crack anywhere but cylinder head gasket or cooler. Just pressure tested engine oil cooler thats ok. Does the tranny cooler have coolant circuit? Looks like its separate from radiator and just air cooled?

Amos - thank you so much for all the help.
I knew you would get it fixed. On the oil in the radiator: it's engine oil. Hyd oil cooler is on the side of the radiator and is air cooled.
Now don't fall out of your chair laughing:remove lower radiator hose at radiator. Drain coolant. add a quart of dawn dishwashing fluid and fill with water. Run engine to circulate. drain and repeat about 3 times. Drain and flush with clear water. Drain and fill with 50/50 coolant mix. Run and check for oil in radiator(might take a few hours for oil to appear). If it shows clear just monitor.
If you see oil, first start with pressure check of oil cooler below oil filter. Remove, clean,then rig up an air line,pressure to 30 PSI,immerse in water and look for bubbles.
If it's not leaking,then it's time to pull the head. Either leaking head gasket or leaking liner O ring(or cracked head) or warped head,etc.
TLB I brought in had same oil in radiator issue. Ended up having to re-build the engine as recent rebuild was done with Chinese junk parts instead of JD parts.
I had a dozer in my work spot and had JD construction do the re-build. Just shy of 6 grand(ouch) but with warranty and now have zero hour engine on the otherwise excellent TLB.
I just did a 3 cylinder in-frame on a little Yanmar and it was actually fun to do.(Work spot was empty this time).
If you end up pulling the head I would go ahead and do the in-frame. Common parts and good kit should be no more than 1000.00 and another 300.00 to have head re-built.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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Lavoy
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Re: Virginia 450 Help

Post by Lavoy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:14 pm

Granted I have never worked on a 450, but on all two cylinder crawlers, 1010, 2010, and 350, the foot brake pedal actuates both brake bands.
Looking at a 450 straight book, there is a cross shaft from the brake pedal to the LH side, and a brake lever and linkage to actuate the left brake in conjunction with the RH brake.
I don't have later manuals to look at, but I always assumed this stayed the same.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
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Birddog
40C crawler
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Location: Virginia

Re: Virginia 450 Help

Post by Birddog » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:21 pm

Ok well lets hope for the best. Its a 4239 D motor from French JD plant. I was told it was put in sometime in the 90s in a refit. Dam thing runs great. No smoke. Starts immediately even when cold. That would really suck if I needed a rebuild. I will do everything you suggest.
Just replaced water pump. Never got hot but maybe hot spot in head. Oil showed up after 5 hours or so if running with the new pump.
Virginia - 1967 JD 450 - Trackloader - 4n1 - Backhoe

Birddog
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:38 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Virginia 450 Help

Post by Birddog » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:19 pm

Thanks Lavoy. Makes more sense to have both sides brake. I havent dug into the service manual on this. Finding what you need in there is a bit of an art Im learning.
Virginia - 1967 JD 450 - Trackloader - 4n1 - Backhoe

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amos
1010 crawler
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Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:29 am
Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: Virginia 450 Help

Post by amos » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:12 pm

Lavoy wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:14 pm
Granted I have never worked on a 450, but on all two cylinder crawlers, 1010, 2010, and 350, the foot brake pedal actuates both brake bands.
Looking at a 450 straight book, there is a cross shaft from the brake pedal to the LH side, and a brake lever and linkage to actuate the left brake in conjunction with the RH brake.
I don't have later manuals to look at, but I always assumed this stayed the same.
Lavoy
Ya'll got me to wondering. When I was working on the 450C I had to drag out of the woods in south Louisiana it had no foot brake response at all. One of the very last repairs was working on the foot brake linkage and replacing a missing pin on the right rear linkage near the rear case.There was no cross bar going to the left side. Assumed it was designed that way but it could have been simply missing.
Got a parts book at my office and I will look for a breakdown drawing.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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