reverser oil flow question

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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Sat May 26, 2018 12:03 pm

You have a secret squirrel. Or someone used to have one.

A better question might be: How many acorns are there?
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B Town
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by B Town » Sat May 26, 2018 2:47 pm

Sounds like you have found your problem or a least some parts of your problem. Vermin have definitely been busy. One can only guess how they got the acorn in the system, maybe the system had been open at one time? I have had personal friends tell me about nuts, seeds and nesting inside a cooling system. And they never knew the system had been opened.

oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Sun May 27, 2018 10:06 am

psprague wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 12:03 pm
A better question might be: How many acorns are there?
No more acorns in any of the lines.
B Town wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 2:47 pm
Sounds like you have found your problem or a least some parts of your problem.
I think this is a problem and I’m glad I found it….but I don’t think it IS the problem. The symptoms don’t seem to match up.

I removed the clutch housing, pump and front cover this morning. Just as I suspected and just as other disassembly procedures there are no obvious problems. While I’m this far there is only one thing that I haven’t checked. That is the check ball, spring and stop in the clutch/shift valve housing along with all the passages. I’ll be pulling the HLR clutches and control unit later today.
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oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Mon May 28, 2018 6:41 am

The clutch pack is out and laying on the bench. When I pulled the clutch valve housing off the main valve housing the check ball was on its seat. When I turned it over the ball fell out on the bench. It was clean. I pulled the spring and stop out and found a small chunk of blue silicone in the passage under the stop. It was about half the size of a pencil eraser and very soft.

I had to quit for the day because of the heat. It was 94 degrees in the shade and the only shade was in the shop. It was 110 in there.

I’m going out this morning to make a more thorough inspection.
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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Mon May 28, 2018 11:28 am

That might help explain the weird clutch behavior. (notice how I hedge that statement :) ) If it blocks the check valve closed, it starves the needle valve. If it blocks the valve open, it dumps high-pressure oil from the accumulator et al.

People tend to use about 97% too much blue goo when assembling things.

-paul
JD 450c forestry, JD 440A cable skidder

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amos
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by amos » Wed May 30, 2018 5:42 am

oljoe wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:15 am
I got started pulling the engine today. I removed the hard nose and pulled the pressure gauge off of the cooler return line and lowered it in a bucket to drain. Some oil drained out and then I heard something drop into the bucket….an acorn had rolled out of the hose. I then pulled the inlet hose off of the steel line to the transmission and there was another acorn, a bit larger than the steel line, sitting on the opening of the steel line. Both the inlet and return lines had an acorn in them. Funny thing is the closest oak tree is 300 yards away and there are no trees around the loader. I’m wondering if they may have been in there all along.

Any thoughts on what problems, if any, the acorns would cause?
Me thinks some type of critter has found a new home and pantry for its acorn stash.Problems? too many to list.
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Wed May 30, 2018 1:31 pm

It could have been a replacement cooler that was stored somewhere accessible by Rocky the flying squirrel.

I think one could duplicate almost any weird condition with a handful of crushed acorns and some blue goo chunks.
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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:32 pm

I gotta know....

:)
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Lavoy
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by Lavoy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:16 pm

Hence why Blue Spoo in not allowed in my shop.
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amos
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by amos » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:13 am

Lavoy wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:16 pm
Hence why Blue Spoo in not allowed in my shop.
Lavoy
Hate the stuff too. back when I was in the Navy and working on all types of main propulsion equipment,auxiliary equipment,etc,etc,etc we were taught to never install a dry gasket and we coated both sides of a gasket with red grease.Never had a leak. On metal to metal seal surfaces we used some type of black goo(name lost to memory) or red lead primer(the good stuff that still had lead).If using the red lead primer we would paint one surface and let it dry then assemble.This was during the 80's when men were men and women weren't.Sailors drank like fish,smoked like a ship at flank speed and women were not on ships.
Hard,hard life to be an engineer on a ship back then but I wouldn't take anything for the experiences I lived through.How hard? I was stuck at a barracks waiting for my ship to pull into an overseas port and the other sailors there were on medical holds: some were there for having multiple heart attacks and were E-5 and E-6's all engineers in their late 20's.18 hours a day,7 days a week,for months on end then toss in getting shot at,typhoons,hurricanes,mines,... Kind of a high stress job.
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:29 pm

I got the clutch assembly back in and covered everything up. I haven’t been able to get back on it because hay season got here, and I just finished with that last week.

Also, my wife and I are having a 40-year anniversary, party and vowel renewal, coming up the first part of June. We’re having the gathering in the back yard and she has lots of make ready projects for me. I spent last weekend laying a flagstone walkway and we will be hanging lights and decorating next weekend. The weekend after that is the big event.

Rest assured that when I get the reassembly and testing done I’ll let everyone know the result.

Joe
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oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:14 am

I had very high hopes only to have them dashed against the cold yellow steel that is the 450. :cry:

When I got ready to put the rubber sections of cooler lines back on I blew compressed air through all the hoses and looked through them for resections. One of the lines had a piece of rubber where the inner section had separated from the outer section. I threw all the rubber hoses away and bought new. One of the sections of old hose looked like it may have been heater hose and I replaced them all with oil rated hose.

I filled everything with oil, adjusted the clutch and started the machine. The tell tail buzzing of the valve was not present. With the gearbox in neutral I shifted the reverser to forward low, then to reverse 4 or 5 times and I could hear the engine pull down with each shift. I then put the gearbox in first gear and shifted several more times. The loader shifted and moved as it should. I put in neutral and got off to check for leaks and remove the safety supports for the loader arms. While removing the supports I heard the buzzing start. When I got back in the seat it would not move.

I guess I’m still looking for the cause of this problem.

Not sure where to go from here.
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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:50 am

Mine seemed to burp air a couple of times after refilling.

Have you checked the oil level when it's making the buzzing noise? Is it different than when its not making the noise?
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oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:41 am

psprague wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:50 am
Have you checked the oil level when it's making the buzzing noise? Is it different than when its not making the noise?
I have not checked the oil level with the engine running but I did check it when I shut down. It was full. I’ll check it running.

The other thing I want to try is bypassing the cooler and transmission filter. When I had all the lines off I blew air through the cooler both directions and found no restrictions but if an acorn made it through, into the cooler, then swelled up from oil saturation (do acorns swell) I guess it could block the cooler outlet.
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dtoots1
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:47 pm

not to question your checking, but you mention the hose interior deteriorated, is possible piece broke off and lodged in critical location???

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