reverser oil flow question

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oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:03 pm

dtoots1 wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:47 pm
not to question your checking, but you mention the hose interior deteriorated, is possible piece broke off and lodged in critical location???
That is a very distinct possibility. It would have to be in the cooler or the filter. I’ve had everything else off and cleaned. If I bypass those and it still doesn’t work, I’ll know to look elsewhere.
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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:15 am

When you had the clutches out, did you get to clean the insides and the case sumps? I remember reading here something about running changes of designs for common/separate transmission sumps and drain plugs.

A general question: is pressurized lubrication delivered to the ring gear or is it just the HLR?
oljoe wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:29 pm
I got the clutch assembly back in and covered everything up.
JD 450c forestry, JD 440A cable skidder

oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:39 pm

I tried bypassing the cooler and transmission filter and got the same result. The buzzing started when the pressure rose to about 150 and started to fluctuate. When I disengaged the engine clutch the pressure dropped to 0 and the buzzing stopped. When I engaged the clutch It took about a minute for the pressure to start rising and the buzzing an pressure fluctuation started again.
psprague wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:15 am
When you had the clutches out, did you get to clean the insides and the case sumps? I remember reading here something about running changes of designs for common/separate transmission sumps and drain plugs.
I cleaned everything with a blow nozzle that draws solvent from a container via an attached hose. I even sprayed some brake cleaner on some of the internal case components just to make sure something wasn’t trapped in there.
psprague wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:15 am
A general question: is pressurized lubrication delivered to the ring gear or is it just the HLR?
Paul, there is a T on the internal steel return line. One side goes to the clutch pack and one goes through the back of the transmission case to lube the ring gear. I didn’t have that cover off, so I’m not sure if it just dumps on the ring gear or is attached to the housing somehow. It seemed to be loose though as if it just went through the case and wasn’t attached to anything.
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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:40 pm

Hi Joe,

My private messages aren't working. I'm not ignoring yours. :)

Paul
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oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:47 am

Just saying thanks Paul.
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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:52 am

PM's are sorted out.

No problem!
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Jds
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by Jds » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:46 am

I don't know a lot about the hlr, and I have a 2010 not a 450 but I've just read through this whole thread and am wondering if there is a way to isolate the pump from the rest of the transmission and check it's output pressure to make sure it's putting out stable pressure. I know you put a new pump in it but possibly there's something in the suction side somewhere that's limiting flow eratically. I've been trying to find a problem with my hydraulics on the 2010 and think I have it narrowed down to air entering the pump. That may be a problem, the easiest way I think to check that would be to run the pump outlet to a bucket and run it to fill the bucket up, if it's suckin air you will see bubbles in the oil. That's my 2 cent, maybe only worth one. Good luck.

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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:53 pm

There is an interesting idea, a transparent line at the cooler checking for bubbles in the stream from the pump sucking air or cavitating when it starts making the buzzing noise.
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oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:03 pm

Great idea Paul I'll give that a try when I have a chance to get back to it. I've got the hay thing going on again right now and it's taking all my time.

Jds, Thanks for the reply. I've racking my little pea brain trying to figure how to check for air in the system and Paul came up with a way.

Joe
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Jds
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by Jds » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:16 pm

No problem. I would think if you put a clear line on it would have to be on the outlet side of the pump, but then again you would most likely see the air getting sucked in on the inlet side as well.

oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:37 pm

Attached is a video with a clear hose attached to the cooler line
Lots of air bubbles then it gets foamy at the end.
One of the rubber fuel injector return lines broke so I had to shut it down...more testing tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vg2BUpRmpE
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psprague
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by psprague » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:14 pm

From the sounds, does the valve buzzing noise start approximately the same time the frothy oil shows up?
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oljoe
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by oljoe » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:56 am

psprague wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:14 pm
From the sounds, does the valve buzzing noise start approximately the same time the frothy oil shows up?
The buzzing starts as soon as the pump pressure reaches 130-150 psi and is just a few seconds after starting. The buzzing seems to correspond more with the bubbles than the foaming.

I got a new fuel return line yesterday, changed the broken one and did some more testing.

Before starting the machine, the clear line was full of oil with no bubbles. A pressure gauge was attached to the test port and the oil level was just above the full mark. I started it and the bubbles were there by the time I walked around to the front. Just like in the video the big bubbles slowed and the foaming started. When I walked around to check the oil level and pressure the gauge was bouncing from about 30 to 0 psi. The oil level was at the full mark. There was still a little buzzing, but it stopped when the pressure went to nothing. I walked around to the front, to view the hose and some foamy bubbles were visible but were not moving through the hose. The oil flow had stopped.
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Jds
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by Jds » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:14 am

Well there's definitely air entering somwhere, where is the pump mounted on your machine?

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: reverser oil flow question

Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:29 am

Hi,

Are you sure about your oil? This is looking like it might be that generic '303'. Or, even R&O hydraulic oil. Something without proper anti-foaming agents. The pump itself can cause this without an air leak if there isn't a proper anti-foaming additive....

Stan
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