450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

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Will1020
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450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:07 pm

So I found this site late last year and found great info and help. So I'm now ready to start my 450b project. It's a very well beaten and used machine. The previous owners welded everything on the frame work. They added blocks in front of and behind the attaching foot as the bolts were missing holding foot to frame. I took the right track off today after finding the master link pin welded in! Grr. After grinding it it popped right out. I then removed the main sprocket and what I believe is a big weight that was attached to it. I was looking in my tech manual and it refers to the gauge tool JD268 and spring retention bolt T 16678. Does anyone have any info on these? Like what size bolt it is etc. Or where I can get them? I look forward to posting pics of this journey. This unit has many issues Electrical, p/s pump , leaking cylinders, clutches and the lower frame work that all the track stuff is hooked to is in really bad shape. Ill post pics tomorrow. Let me know on those tools please! Thank you in advance

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amos
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by amos » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:47 am

Morning Will,
You do have a good project on your hands. On your specific question I don't have a clue but I would like to give you a "priority list'" on eval and how to plan for the rebuild.
By cost,hours to repair,and difficulty:
transmission
steering clutches and brakes
track group
engine
hydraulics
electrical
So: you look at transmission for full functionality and if good you move down the list.
What I do before tearing into a new to me machine is give it a serious eval and get my list together. I can walk up to any piece of equipment and point out 20 minor to moderate issues in less than 5 minutes, But what I'm talking about is a deep evaluation which should be after some run time on the machine.
Back when i was young and dumb there was a few times I fixed something minor and easy to get to and then had to go over the same repair again because I needed to go deeper and it was part of the deeper repair.Simple example: you replace some leaking engine gaskets and seals then soon after have to tear down the engine for a re-build.
Hydraulic cylinders can really hit you. You see a wet cylinder and think $100.00 packing kit. Then you see the scored ram on the underside of it as well as bad threads on the cylinder. That $100.00 just jumped to $800.00.
You'll get an answer to your question from other members soon and as you need help please post more questions.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

Jim B
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Jim B » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:40 am

Good morning,

Sounds like you will be busy for a while.

You can find details of the T16678 bolt at JohnDeereParts Homepage if you search that part number. It is basically a 1" coarse thread bolt about 15-1/2" long. It is available for about $250.00, from what I saw when I looked. They show a material grade of A17D which I believe is supposed to be equal to Grade 5. So if you decide to find elsewhere or make one, be sure the material is at least that grade. The spring will have a lot of force when compressed and you don't want the bolt breaking and releasing it.

I believe the JD268A gauge was the track wear gauge for the 450's and is no longer available. You would have to find someone who has one you can copy or use (your John Deere dealer might have one and help you out, some will, some won't). In the past some folks on here had (and might still have) some JD266 and JD267 gauges for the 40 series through the 350's which won't help you on a 450B. You should find the measurements for most of the undercarriage components in the Tech manual. They can be measured with common tools. To me the biggest thing a gauge provides is it will show you the wear your sprockets have compared to the original profile, which is on the gauge. If you are putting new chains on you should plan to put new sprockets on as old sprockets will increase wear on new chains. Good luck and work safe.

dtoots1
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:03 am

In regards to the leaking hydraulic cylinder, that Amos pointed out...I have a jd440ic one of my cylinders was leaking with a slow drip...it finally just quit working recently and i took it to hydraulic shop...mind you this is original 1960 machine....these cylinders are simply not available because of the bosses etc.....replacement seals are available, my shop had them at $50,however the rod and cylinder needed honed and sealed and final cost was $320 and i paid an additional $50 for other cylinder seals etc , in case i will need in future. Good news is that it now works!

Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:14 pm

Ok, so thanks to all that replied. I had a big day today. Jim B I checked all that out and went to a local fastener place and bought a 16" by 1" coarse thread Allen bolt. That's all they had. I'll modify it if I have too. 30$ is better then 268.00 from Deere. I took a bunch of photos and have lots of news. However i need to figure out how to post pics here. Not sure if there is a working button to upload or just copy and paste somehow. Help me out with the proper way of posting pics and we Will get into the thick of this thing. I used my old Ford tractor to lift the front roller off of tracks. It just slides off once unbolted from tensioner. I marked the shims that are between tensioner and roller. Then I was batting a thousand with the track supporting roller. I broke all bolts trying to remove. So the torch and ten pound Sledge settled that issue. I then pulled the tensioner off the tensioner shaft. Basically what I have now is alot of broken stuff. I'd like to post pics next with more details. Let me know how works best

dtoots1
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by dtoots1 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:32 pm

well first thing i see is that all thread.....might want to reconsider as i don't suppose that is grade 5 like was suggested..

the pic server info is located in the question and answer forum at bottom of the board index...and is only visible when you are logged into the jdcrawler site....read entire batch for the pic server.....you must send either email or private message to Lavoy with your choice of login and password to be able to log in to the pic server to upload pics....

welcome and enjoy

Jim B
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Jim B » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:13 pm

Hi dtoots1,

I would agree with you about a possible issue with all thread, but it looks like he got an Allen bolt (socket head bolt). If that is correct those are normally better than grade 5, the fastener shop should have been able to tell him that and it should work if it has the length of threads needed (5"or more). If you get away from the local hardware, building supply, and farm supply stores' all thread, usually grade 2 or less, and talk to a true fastener supply store, all thread rods can be obtained in different grades. B7 is a common grade stocked in this area, it falls between grades 5 and 8 for tensile and yield strengths (One should get the proper grade nuts to use with it as well, 2H is common, grade 8 will work as well). It is used a lot in industrial settings.

Now Will1020, it looks like you will need some good drill bits, easy outs and taps; and a lot of patience. A supply of penetrating and cutting oils won't hurt either. Good luck

Jim

Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:09 pm

I'm not sure where the All thread thing came from. Maybe my spell check got us going down the wrong path. I bought a grade 8 Allen headed bolt. Unfortunately I need to take it to a buddy of mine who's a machinist that Im convincing in to helping me on this project 😁. The threads are only 3.5" long as of now. Jim B you said about nuts. I was under the impression this bolt screwed into end cap of spring and Drew it tight that way..

Jim B
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Jim B » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:22 pm

Yes this will screw into the end cap under the spring so you won't need a nut(s). My comment on the nuts was meant to cover the times where one needs nuts with the all thread; the grade of the nuts is important as well. You're headed in the right direction from what I see. It will be a big help to have a machinist with you on this, get him enlisted.

Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:47 pm

I did contact Lavoy so hopefully I can share pics soon. Excited to document from beginning to end

Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:53 pm

Ok just got response. Photos must be hosted off site then linked to. I'll get to work finding a good app for that.

Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:31 pm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... 28_jpg.htm

Ok here's a pic of this beautiful money pit! Let's see if this is a go. If so I'll post more. Looks like it's working good. Take a close look at all parts and you'll see missing bolts. Like on the front rotor and the front cross bar/ mounting foot. Can you see where the original owner welded in stop blocks to hold track assembly in place? I'm not sure that guy owned a tool box. Just a welder...grr

Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:54 pm

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... cq_jpg.htm
Here's my rear sprocket. I think it's really worn but I have no idea really. Any thoughts?

Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:16 am

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... xr_jpg.htm
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... y5_jpg.htm

Using the old Ford tractor to remove the front idler. Worked great nice and steady no heavy lifting. I think that idler is missing it's center bolt.I marked the shims that were between it and the tensioner as well. They are just two holed shims nothing complicated.

Will1020
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Re: 450b Undercarriage rebuild and steer clutches

Post by Will1020 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:21 am

http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... x2_jpg.htm
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/5049 ... f2_jpg.htm

Well we are batting a thousand. All bolts broke off then had to torch the studs too get the upper idler off. If you don't have the tools pictured here. Don't do this job. It be impossible.

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