To buy or not to buy

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Sosza
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To buy or not to buy

Post by Sosza » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:00 pm

Hello all,

I was told this is the place to ask questions on older JD crawlers. I have a friend of mine selling a 1976 350c bulldozer it’s in fair condition as it’s just been used to push snow all its life, and stored in a shed. He is asking 4500 for it and it has recently had the engine rebuilt, coupler replaced, some frame work, front crossbar, and rollers replaced. He is looking to sell it cause the reverser appears to have failed pretty bad. I was told by a shop that has it, “the oil looks like anti seize!” They also told me when they did the coupler the input shaft was pretty worn and they could find a replacement. It will go in reverse, but not forward.

So I guess the question I’m asking is this likely to be salvageable an ok investment. I am actually a diesel mechanic, but I work on over the road trucks, and have no experience with equipment, but have access to any tool I would need minus machining. I’m pretty confident I could do the job if I can get parts

I would add a picture if I could figure that out from my smart phone, but it basically came from Alta Utah.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:37 pm

Hi,

Hard to say if it is worth the price. Some costly work already done, but more to do. The reverser has its' own oil and pump and filter, so its' condition doesn't tell anything about the transmission and final drives. You might have more issues there if that lubricant was neglected as the reverser was. Sounds like there are undercarriage concerns as well. Those parts tend to all wear together and some were replaced....

The reverser has two clutch packs. The front one is for forward, the rear one for reverse. Both are disengaged for neutral. I am reading 'coupler' as 'isolator' here. If they had the engine out, they'd have seen the isolator. The coupler sits between the reverser output and the trans input. You don't see that by pulling the engine. The isolator needing replacement isn't a worry in and of itself.

The engine would need to come back out to then pull the reverser. Basically, these things go together around the trans. Reverser and engine in front, final drives to each side. If you work on big trucks, you won't be befuddled by anything on a crawler.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Sosza
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Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Sosza » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:39 pm

Any unforeseen parts going to be an issue to get?

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Stan Disbrow » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:30 am

Hi,

I can't think of any parts on a C or a D we can't get. I have been shopping for a 350C or D for a few years now and the going price for one that isn't worn out runs from $12k-16k. So, there is a line in the sand to figure out how far to go fixing one up. One thing about fixing one is you know better just how good it is.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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amos
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Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by amos » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:50 am

$4500.00 and needing more serious(and probably expensive) repairs not to mention the teardown and reassembly time.Plus it's from a friend. For the sake of the friendship I would pass. Not worth losing a friend over a dozer repair job.
Looking at offerings and tossing out the high and low priced units a typical 350C that functions as it should and isn't completely run out is in the $7000.00 to $9000.00 range.
At $4500.00 and with repairs you could still be in that range. Or not:depends on what you find when you open it up.At $2500.00 I'd be in on it but your friend might feel cheated. If you really want it tell him if repairs are less than say $4000.00 you will give him another $1000.00 when you get it running.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

JWB Contracting
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by JWB Contracting » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:12 pm

For 4,500 I would already own it. Engine and Dozer assembly are worth that in Alberta Canada. You might get a functional 350 or 450 for $10K, but they are far and few between and will mostly likely need frame, cross member and/or track work.

We are getting close to out of 350C and 450C parts as everything we’ve bought lately we have fixed.

The reverser is not that bad to work on, my dad and I we have done the job in 2 days easily including tear down, rebuild of the reverser and reassembly. Toughest part is getting the bearings set, which is mostly what goes. At times the input shaft shows wear and either needs to be built up or a replacement found whic can run about $2k. Also input shaft on the transmission can wear, which is about as bad as it gets on a 350 and would require 100% disassembly of the entire machine.
Jason Benesch

John Deere 350C Crawler Dozer with 3pt Hitch
John Deere 2010 Crawler Dozer with Winch
John Deere 430U Tractor (2)
John Deere 435 Tractor
Oliver 1900 Tractor

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:30 am

Hi,

One thing I am sure you already noted is that prices run all over the map. Literally. Different areas have different supply and demand and that changes prices. The best I can say is right there in my signature. No such thing as a cheap crawler. Ha!

Oh, and a few years back, Deere offered a ReLife program. For $30k you could have your still working 350C or D sent back to Dubuque. They'd tear it down into every tiny bit, reuse what they could, replace what they couldn't, and reassemble a machine for you.

Yep. A Disassembly line on one end and an Assembly line on the other. But for $30k and your still working, not bent and busted up, original unit you'd get a new 350. It was meant for government users, mostly forest firefighting who need the smaller machine, but they took any unit that met the initial inspection at a dealer.

So, there is a price one can use as a high-side baseline.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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amos
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Location: Piney Woods of east Texas

Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by amos » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:21 am

Stan Disbrow wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:30 am
Hi,

One thing I am sure you already noted is that prices run all over the map. Literally. Different areas have different supply and demand and that changes prices. The best I can say is right there in my signature. No such thing as a cheap crawler. Ha!

Oh, and a few years back, Deere offered a ReLife program. For $30k you could have your still working 350C or D sent back to Dubuque. They'd tear it down into every tiny bit, reuse what they could, replace what they couldn't, and reassemble a machine for you.

Yep. A Disassembly line on one end and an Assembly line on the other. But for $30k and your still working, not bent and busted up, original unit you'd get a new 350. It was meant for government users, mostly forest firefighting who need the smaller machine, but they took any unit that met the initial inspection at a dealer.

So, there is a price one can use as a high-side baseline.

Stan
Morning Stan, Yup,prices swing all over the place and by the years demand. Back when I was fooling with YJ and TJ Jeeps it was a sellers market:couldn't restore them fast enough and I made a killing selling them. Then the market dried up. Same on farm tractors:some years it's strong but last 5 or so years the new tractor dealers are selling utility 45HP tractors as a "package" with a trailer,FEL and a bushog for $600.00 a month for 84 months(that's $50,400.00 btw). People only see the $600.00 a month part and don't care about the 50 grand it seems.
Problem with used equipment is that they either have to have a huge down payment or ability to pay cash in full and most can't do that.
I track auction results as well and like you said they swing all over the place by region.I've seen 350C's I wouldn't pay scrap value sell at $10,000.00 and also saw good 350C's go for $5000.00. Region dictates the price. If you are set up to make the drive and haul anything deals can be found. But if you have to pay to transport you're looking at $3.00 a loaded mile.When I do a transport of anything weighing in the 20,000 pound range requiring a couple of overnight stays my costs are $1.50 to $1.75 a loaded mile using my Ram 3500 dually and dragging a Belshe 30K trailer.It adds up pretty quickly.
Amos
Pushin hard or diggin deep life is good.
What's ahead is what matters. What's behind is already done.
A fool of a man is he who doesn't ask questions...
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason...

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Stan Disbrow
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Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:19 am

Hi,

So true. No one looks at the Total Cost, just the monthly payment. Sad, actually. If you take the time to follow the foreclosures on loans you can get a deal as a result.

Last year, there was a 3000 (really!) hour 350D in central Kentucky for $16k. I was seriously considering it, but the hauling issue had me dragging my feet. My setup is too small, being intended for no more than a 420c. It would have been easy if I paid the $3 per loaded mile, but I didn't and so someone else got it.

This year, Mark found a 350C with low hours. He went thru it, I mean really went thru it (lots of little stuff and all the major stuff is excellent) and in the end $13k. I wanted it, but the best I could come up with is $2 per loaded mile *plus* $1 per unloaded mile up from NC to get it in VT. That means add at least $3k to transport it. Fortunately, Mark has a hauler he uses up there who needs to run empty to FL as soon and Old Man Winter takes a vacation. So, now it is $1k to have it hauled from his place to mine.

So, there it is again: No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler. But, I want one to last me until the end. I want it to work on a sizable project not *be* a sizable project. ;)

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Stan Disbrow
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Posts: 2549
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Stan Disbrow » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:24 am

Hi,

Just for Giggles (not to be confused with Google), a check of ePay reveals:

Ex-govt 1985 350C dozer at $23k in IN

Missing tag 350C dozer at $12k in PA

350B loader at $11.5k in IN

Several more 350B dozers in the $9-10k range.

Only the first two seem decent, and both have new paint so it is really tough to tell anything from pics online. And, this source tends to always be on the high side.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Sosza
MC crawler
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Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Sosza » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:49 pm

Everyone thanks,

Really good information and seems consistent. I think I’m going to go through with it as I know who has had it all these years and know and can get shop records of the people who have worked on it.

I may be confused as I’m green to the lingo for crawlers, but I’m pretty sure he said they had the reverser out and said the input shaft was significantly worn and they replaced the coupler

Sosza
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Sosza » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:06 pm

This was because the coupler failed but that is all they did at that time

Sosza
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Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by Sosza » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:08 pm

serial # is jd350cc374765 machine has 4700 hours ish

Trying to get pictures posted, and the shaft in question.

Image

so this was not replaced as they said they could not get this
the springs in the picture are from what they are calling "the coupler" that was replaced but its the isolator
Image

Image
Image
Image

parts replaced in the last two years
t33373x x2........ not exactly sure what this is and how deep?
at315819
injectors
engine rebuilt including oil cooler
carrier rollers
front crossbar

over 8 grand in parts but those are the big things minus the hardware

B Town
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Location: Western Iowa

Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by B Town » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:54 pm

Nice pics of the wide pad 350C. Really good snow groomer. The pads look to be in excellent shape.

B Town
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Re: To buy or not to buy

Post by B Town » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:58 pm

Lavoy (the proprietor of this site) had put together a kit the would upgrade the C series isolator to the much improved D series. FYI

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