Poor power from a 450()

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Cle Elum John
430 crawler
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Poor power from a 450()

Post by Cle Elum John » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:03 pm

I'm getting the problems sorted out on a recently purchased 450. I just put a new set of injectors in because of poor power. The injectors did help a lot but it still seems under powered. Example: It will climb a measured 15% grade in H (HLR), in second gear and at 1900rpm, WOT with no other load. No load speed is 2500rpm. Engine up to temperature. Brakes are not dragging. It won't climb in 3rd, it bogs down and dies. A little black smoke in 2nd and it does not miss. I understand it is a heavy machine and 67hp is not a lot. Set me straight, should I be expecting better?
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Tigerhaze
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Re: Poor power from a 450()

Post by Tigerhaze » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:55 pm

I can't speak specifically about the 450s but it would seem that it shouldn't die in 3rd on that shallow of a grade at no load. Although I have not run my new to me straight 450 dozer much it doesn't seem to have that issue. Does it die in lower gears (1-L or 2-L) under load?

It would seem to me that it is fuel starved. As Stan would likely say, the easiest thing to check first and possibly the culprit is the lines from the fuel tank to the injector pump- often over time the inlet at the fuel tank can become clogged with debris, or the soft lines themselves can collapse internally. Did you recently put any type of fuel cleaner in the fuel tank or biodiesel? It may have mobilized sludge that was adhering internally to the tank. Also good time to check and change the fuel filters. I would have guessed you would have already done that before investing in injectors but maybe not.

Beyond that, you may have issues with maladjusted injection timing (although it would seem to me to have other symptoms) or internal wear or other issues such as blockage in the injection pump. If you search the archives, there are lots of discussions about lack of power issues for 450s that were really good reads but take some time to find.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

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Tigerhaze
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Re: Poor power from a 450()

Post by Tigerhaze » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:57 pm

I would also preface that my comments are based on a non-turbo straight 450- you didn't really say what 450 you have.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

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psprague
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Re: Poor power from a 450()

Post by psprague » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:57 pm

I won't pull out to pass someone unless I have a long straight slightly downhill stretch to let it wind out.

Mine will run 4H on the flat. Its quite the cacophony and I've stated before, both frightening and exhilarating at the same time. Kind of like skydiving out of a burning aircraft.
JD 450c forestry, JD 440A cable skidder

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Tigerhaze
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Re: Poor power from a 450()

Post by Tigerhaze » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:39 pm

Yeah, I have only had my 2010 crawlers with HLR once or twice in gears higher than 2nd and thought I was going to throw the tracks and shake the crawler apart. I really just keep it in 1 or 2 now with high or low and that is plenty for me.
(1) JD Straight 450 crawler dozer with manual outside blade; (2) JD 2010 diesel crawler loaders; (1) JD 2010 diesel dozer with hydraulic 6-way blade; (2) Model 50 backhoe attachments, misc. other construction equipment

Cle Elum John
430 crawler
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Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:23 pm
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Re: Poor power from a 450()

Post by Cle Elum John » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:58 pm

For some reason my reply from my "smart" phone did not get posted. I will try again.

Thanks for all the help.

Non-Turbo.
The 15% grade is actually pretty steep. I went out and measured the slope at the specific spot it was stalling and it is more like 20% +. It is a chore to walk up.
It is still blowing slightly black smoke, so I don't think it is fuel starved. It is working plenty hard and not missing.
Both fuel filters were changed. I blew the air filter clean. I intend to do the same test with the filter out.
I live in the mountains and nothing is flat, but I suspect it would run without issue 4H on flat ground. It would be a wild ride.
It's an old machine. It starts up easy and runs smooth but it may be way down off of its rated power.

This might be as good as can be expected. I have a couple more issues to sort out and then it starts to earn it's keep.

Thanks again
John
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77 Ford
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Re: Poor power from a 450()

Post by 77 Ford » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:09 am

From my experience (which is just my own 450 non turbo) it's operating as expected. I have a 10% grade and it's all my machine want's in 3rd. I only use 4th for empty travel on flat ground. I actually use it a fair amount.
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Cle Elum John
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Re: Poor power from a 450()

Post by Cle Elum John » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:48 am

Good point of reference. I was not sure what to expect. It sounds like it might not be performing too bad.
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