350C engine re posted in proper forum.

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Calgary Glenn
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350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Calgary Glenn » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:45 pm

*****I posted this in wrong forum so you may see it twice. ***

Hello. I posted earlier as to how to remove injectors. The engine on my 350C is stuck tight and I wanted to pull injectors to try spin it.
The full story: I was working on pushing dirt to back fill around my new house, very light duty. Everything was running fine. I stop for lunch and it would not turn over. Hit the start button it it just buzzed like it had a weak battery. When I shut if of it did not make any noise, there is no coolant in engine oil,it did not overheat or throw white or black smoke.
I tried to boast it, eventually thought the starter was shot so I pulled the starter and when I put pry bar on fly wheel it would not budge. So I pulled hyd pump thinking it may be the problem. Put 36 inch pipe wrench on output shaft and it would not budge a hair in either direction. It was rock solid tight. I left it alone and used another tractor I have, and to finish building garage so I could have concrete to work on, and a year went by. I checked it again and it was tight so I tried to pull injectors, I loosened the hold down claps and but did not pull them because they would not come loose and i did not want to take a chance wrecking them with a slide hammer. Don't want to buy a set for nothing.

So I pulled the engine and as it is hanging on engine hoist I am able easily spin the flywheel!!

I pulled the dozer across the yard to shed and both tracks turned, in fact it will roll on it own on very slight slope. I pulled it with a small RTV.
If the reveres-er or transmission packed up I still should have been able to rock the engine because if the springs in the reverse-er cluth. Both the reverse-er and trans oil level is up.
Any ideas as to how to proceed, I don't want to tear down engine for nothing and I don't want to reinstall the engine only to have problem reappear.
How can I check the reveres-er and transmission to see they turn freely? Does anyone think they are the problem. The flywheel is not missing any teeth.
I am a loss on what to do next.
Thanks to all who respond.

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Lavoy
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Lavoy » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:15 pm

Grab the reverser input shaft and see if it turns.
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Calgary Glenn
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Calgary Glenn » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:47 pm

Lavoy, the input shaft turns in both directions.

Glenn

Calgary Glenn
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Calgary Glenn » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:54 pm

Lavoy I checked around the work area to see if there were any loose pieces, like maybe I dropped a washer when changing out starter and it got wedged against flywheel. Could not find anything and there are no marks on flywheel. Glenn

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gregjo1948
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:54 am

Could the isolator failed and bound the flywheel?
JD 350B diesel w/rops & 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 highcrop, International 404 utility, International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:43 am

Hi,

The isolator is a plate with studs to which springs attach between the studs on the plate and studs on the flywheel. So, if all the springs are in place, that wasn't it. I can see a spring coming off and jamming things.

The reverser can't be it if the shaft turns.

I had thought it might be a rod bearing beginning to spin, but if it turns over now that it is out, that can't be it.

Stan

Edit: The injector pump is still on, right? Or, did you pull that as well. Reason I ask, I have seen inj pumps make enough load due to dirt or internal failing and lock the engine up such it won't turn over. Heck, I have seen them seize and snap the IP driveshaft. But, then the engine turns over easy after the shaft snaps.....
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Calgary Glenn
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Calgary Glenn » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:17 am

The injector pump is still on engine. Maybe I should pull that off. My neighbor floated that idea that an injector could have leaked down and one cylinder hydro locked. I had about 10-12 gals of fuel in tank when it stopped so the tank was not full. Is that a possibility in your mind. When I look at height of lift pump it does not seem that enough fuel could get into engine but....
This is a strange one.

Calgary Glenn
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Calgary Glenn » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:34 am

Before I pull the pump I think I will attach fuel supply and spin engine with injector loose to see if it is pumping fuel. Do you guys think that would work. I don't want to pull pump and mess with timing unless I have to. Thanks

Calgary Glenn
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Calgary Glenn » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:16 am

I am thinking out loud as i type, if the injector pump were seized what would cause it to loosen up after I pulled engine? It was locked up while in chassis and loose when I pulled it. Why would IP shaft break after removal, there were no forces on it.
My mistake is that I should have tried to turn it after I had loosed the trans bolts, if there was something jammed against flywheel it would have turned.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:00 pm

Hi,

No, I can't see how it would have hydro-locked by gravity feed past the lift pump and IP.

If the IP had loaded down from internal issues, the engine would not now turn over still. So, don't mess with the IP. Only thing snaps the IP drive shaft is a locked up IP. Been there, done that. But, the engine turned over fine. Just didn't run. :P

If the reverser input shaft is what locked, it ought to still be locked. It drives a hydraulic pump, the front of the front clutch pack, a couple gears and the reverse shaft. All of which spin freely when not powered by the engine. Can't engage either clutch pack without the hydraulic pressure from the reverser pump. So, not any of that.

If the engine were locked internally, like a spun bearing, it would still be locked.

Only thing left is the isolator, but if all the springs were still in place, that can"t be it either. I can see a busted spring getting in the wrong place and jamming the works. That would fall out removing the engine. But, if all is OK on the isolator, not that, either.

I think I have run out of things.

Maybe the starter crapped and you did lose something when you pulled that.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

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Lavoy
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Lavoy » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:15 pm

I'm out of ideas, you should have found something obvious by now.
Injector leaking fuel by gravity is impossible, that is definitely not it.
I have had, and seen engines get hot enough the will basically lock up, and then when completely cool they will turn. Doesn't mean there still isn't something wrong. I might be inclined to pull the pan and look at the bearings.
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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Stan Disbrow » Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:28 pm

Hi,

What can happen is, as the shell bearings wear, they get thin. Where the ends meet, they tend to slip one slightly under the other. That causes it to become tight, especially when hot. If it isn't much of an overlap, it will loosen when it cools off. I have seen it often in racing engines, but it surely isn't impossible in a diesel tractor engine.

If it were me, and I had it out already, I would pull the pan and check things out. Only 3 cylinders, so not like a V-12. :)

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside manual blade
Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside manual blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Also Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Calgary Glenn
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by Calgary Glenn » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:59 pm

Stan, you are right. I will pull the pan tomorrow. I sometimes get over analytical to diagnose problem before disassembly, I have seen too many instances where guys dig into things and tear it down a not see what the problem was, I spent 37 years around farm equipment,and boy after awhile you have seen it all.
Today I going to join my American companions and have a few cold beers to honor your Independence Day.
Enjoy the holiday.
Thanks to you and Lavoy for your help, it is appreciated.

Glenn

bennyt
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by bennyt » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:44 pm

Just a thought. I have had on old Super A Farmalls With a weak battery the starter drive will stick in the ring gear and lock up engine. When you loosen the starter bolts it will come out allowing engine to turn over again. Could this explain what happened when you took your starter off?

B Town
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Re: 350C engine re posted in proper forum.

Post by B Town » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:09 pm

I have seen a starter drive lock up, also.

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