455G.. starting problem

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noochdog
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455G.. starting problem

Post by noochdog » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:59 pm

When using my machine all day .....it will not start the following day, I smell diesel from the exaust pipe, batterys are now flat.....I suspect glow plugs not getting enough heat.
I have owned the JD for 10 years, Hour meter not working,was stopped at 14700 hours on the motor and doesn't use a lot of oil, i have only done about 160 hrs in 10 years, any ideas would be appreciated.....

Jim B
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by Jim B » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:59 pm

I may be wrong, but I didn’t think the 455G crawlers had glow plugs as a starting aid, the parts book shows a starting fluid injector system. Do you have a button to hold to make them to work? The diesel 455 lawn tractors do use glow plugs (You’ve got to love JD for deciding to reuse model numbers for different equipment).

To be clear; You used it all day and now, the next day it won’t start? Does it start every time on the day you use it or do you leave it running all the time? If this is not the first time, if it sits two or more days does it start? The starter may be weak and heat soaking, if it won’t start when using it, but heat soak should not be an issue the next day. How fast does it turn over? Does it run out of battery to turn over quickly?

How well is it charging and how are the cables and connections. Can you check the voltage it is charging at as well as the amps? Can you check the voltage at the fuel shutoff when you turn the key on and again when it is cranking over to see if it is losing power?

Are the fuel and air filters clean? Have you tried pumping the hand primer lever on the transfer pump and opening the bleeder screw on the filter to see if you get any air or just fuel, before cranking it over? Again, I don’t really think that would be it, if it starts two days after you run it for a day.

Go over all the basics. Before looking for big problems. The technical manuals, if you have them, have some good diagnostic sections to review on engine, fuel, and electrical system issues. If you don’t have manuals you should get a set from John Deere technical publications (download, CD, or printed are available) or used John Deere manuals can be found on eBay at times. With those and some input from people here that read your posts you should be able to find the problem. Good luck.

noochdog
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by noochdog » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:42 pm

Thanks Jim, The machine is a crawler loader,motor is 4.5 litre..id no t0455ga800047 diesel..
Key start with half turn to glow plugs then full to start, the warning noise it makes when glowing the plugs does not stop like most diesels.my 743 bobcat diesel makes a click noise indicating ready to start ( I'm not a mechanic.lol) I wondered about this. Jim ill check the other items this weekend at the farm (ranch). the manuals i have are the free download stuff not workshop. thanks.

jwbcontracting
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by jwbcontracting » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:48 pm

There are no glow plugs. When you turn the key on it powers the electrical system and tests the warning lights. We have had selenoid issues on our G series crawler. There is one on the starter and one on the firewall. We tested by using a remote start button directly to the starter.

Normally if they turn over fast enough they start. That is what you need first before identifying fuel or engine related issues.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:22 am

Hi,

When you say 'the batteries are now flat' overnight, that would have me looking for a load which stays on when the key is off. If I didn't find that, I would be analyzing the batteries themselves before the starter. I presume this has two batteries in parallel. One weak cell in one battery will be enough to cause problems starting. The weak battery will pull down the good one.

Stan
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Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Jim B
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by Jim B » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:48 am

Having all the info about how it is acting or not acting, in order, would help. When he said he smelled diesel in the exhaust I took it he had cranked it and the batteries went flat. If it didn't crank at all or just clicked, the solenoids could be the issue as jwbcontracting noted. If it cranked but slowly for a short time I agree with Stan it may be a battery. There are multiple possibilities. I think we all would agree basic step by step trouble shooting is needed to eliminate things.

jwbcontracting, Thanks for confirming there are no glow plugs, I didn't think there were any, but I haven't been around the G series or newer but know the E series doesn't have them and they don't show in the G series parts catalog.

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:31 pm

Hi,

Yes, that was what I was thinking. It cranked a couple turns, just enough to smell the fuel coming out the exhaust, and then died. So, I immediately think 'battery'. We all know they like to go all of a sudden. And, having two seems like that'd be better but a sad battery always yanks a good one down with it. All you need is one sad cell out of the dozen.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

noochdog
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by noochdog » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:30 pm

Thanks for the info......and JB for confirming no glow plugs. Hmm firewall solenoid which I found a schematic indicating where it is ,makes sense,i will check and do the bypass start. When starting motor it would turn over slow but it always used to start instantly.
Stan, their is a battery isolating switch which i turn off always, age of the batterys is 2 years and 4 months (did a swap with new batterys in my diesel car) I will check the alternator and make sure it is charging ....thanks again for the help...

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:19 pm

Hi,

Cut off switch is good. Means you don't have to dig further in that direction. Check the batteries, and then wander straight into the starting circuit. The alternator is a good point. If it isn't charging properly, you might well get running current but not enough to charge up for starting. Here I am thinking you might only have one working phase out of the three. I just had that on a diesel truck.

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

noochdog
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by noochdog » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:52 am

hi
Long time no see...machine starts good ,,think the problem was clogged vents in the fuel cap of which there is 2, as the cap was clogged i assume it caused pressure build up in fuel tank ,when using the machine for a while then turning it off,,i suspect pressure buildup in the fuel tank sucked the fuel back into the tank thus starving the engine of fuel.....anyhow see how it goes..thank you guys for the help...

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gregjo1948
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by gregjo1948 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:19 am

Couldn't clogged vents prevent fuel from flowing out of the tank? I'm thinking of the thumb over the end of a straw will pull fluid out of the glass.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford

Jim B
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Re: 455G.. starting problem

Post by Jim B » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:54 am

I suppose if the tank was neutral (no pressure or vacuum) when it started it could build pressure, if it couldn't vent, as the fuel expanded as it warmed and not starve, depending on how long it ran. Then if there was no vent to let air in as it cooled, it could end up with a vacuum in the tank, since there was less fuel in it then when it was started. If the vacuum held until the next day, I suppose it could starve for fuel on the next start up. If it set longer between starts or the cap was removed to check the fuel level, the vacuum would be gone and it started ok. Sounds strange but the description sounds like that, if just opening the cap vents cured it.

I would think it would reach a point where it would have starved if run long enough. I had a problem with performance when the vent in my tank plugged. It didn't quit but it was dropping off. I loosened the cap to check the fuel level and it was ok for a time. From a couple times of that I found if the cap was loose it didn't bother. I saw a post here about the vent tube in someone's tank being plugged and checked mine. It was plugged, I got the vent tube opened (mud daubers) and it hasn't bothered since.

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