350 b reverser leak
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- MC crawler
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:36 pm
350 b reverser leak
Sudden loss of fluid while running, stopped moving in any direction. Whats odd is after refilling it runs out very fast but no sign of leaking externally, Thanks
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: 350 b reverser leak
Hi,
Well, it must be running into the transmission....
Stan
Well, it must be running into the transmission....
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Re: 350 b reverser leak
Check cooling system if it has a radiator cooler for the reverser.
Lavoy
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com
- gregjo1948
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA
Re: 350 b reverser leak
That's what I thought at first but then I thought wouldn't it have to have 2 seals fail to get into the trans.? He said it happened quickly which leads me to believe that the fluid was being pumped out and Lavoy might have the right idea.Stan Disbrow wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:16 pmHi,
Well, it must be running into the transmission....
Stan
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: 350 b reverser leak
Hi,
Yes, he also has a good place to look. I thought of that, but would expect oil out of the reverser and into the cooling jacket to push fluid out of the radiator overflow. The pressure inside the reverser is much greater than the radiator cap could hold back. And, then you'd have that mix all over the ground.
With nothing coming out onto the ground, that pretty much leaves the trans, which can probably take a couple reverser loads of oil before it spits out somewhere. But, maybe your coolant was low and the oil had someplace to fit.
Stan
Yes, he also has a good place to look. I thought of that, but would expect oil out of the reverser and into the cooling jacket to push fluid out of the radiator overflow. The pressure inside the reverser is much greater than the radiator cap could hold back. And, then you'd have that mix all over the ground.
With nothing coming out onto the ground, that pretty much leaves the trans, which can probably take a couple reverser loads of oil before it spits out somewhere. But, maybe your coolant was low and the oil had someplace to fit.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
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- MC crawler
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:36 pm
Re: 350 b reverser leak
I check all fluids often, before and after running, trans levell has not changed, sat over winter and lost antifreeze but i think that is a cold water leak, have put 15 gallons of oil in this, it pumps out immediately on startup
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: 350 b reverser leak
Hi,
Only other place I can think of for it to go is into the bell housing. There is a weep hole on the bottom IIRC, but often times it gets plugged up.
Stan
Only other place I can think of for it to go is into the bell housing. There is a weep hole on the bottom IIRC, but often times it gets plugged up.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
- gregjo1948
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA
Re: 350 b reverser leak
With no gaskets to seal between the housings, I'd think it would at least be dripping. Maybe better check engine oil to see if it's pushing into the oil pan. That's quite a stretch.Stan Disbrow wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:58 amHi,
Only other place I can think of for it to go is into the bell housing. There is a weep hole on the bottom IIRC, but often times it gets plugged up.
Stan
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford
Re: 350 b reverser leak
well clickityclack,
where are you located?....
if you have pumped 15 gallons thru the reverser, how much are you adding at a time? surely aint 15 one time. and you say tranny level not changed? what about any other fluid levels? steering? finals? rad? are hydraulics separate on 350? its gotta go somewhere..
leastways you know pump is working since pumps out when you start it.
where are you located?....
if you have pumped 15 gallons thru the reverser, how much are you adding at a time? surely aint 15 one time. and you say tranny level not changed? what about any other fluid levels? steering? finals? rad? are hydraulics separate on 350? its gotta go somewhere..
leastways you know pump is working since pumps out when you start it.
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: 350 b reverser leak
Hi,
Hydraulics are separate on a 350. Tank on the RH of the seat, pump out in front of the engine. Reverser has its own pump on the input shaft. Reverser housing is the tank. The oil goes to a cooling line in the radiator, so that might have been it. Or, past the seals into the bell housing or back into the trans. Trans uses the same oil, so it wouldn't be obvious but the level hasn't risen.
This is a B, so it has dry steering clutches. If it were a C or a D, reverser oil is used to make up the steering clutch packs, so it could be in one of those areas if a clutch seal failed. But, being a B, reverser oil isn't sent to the steering clutches. The B uses pressure plates to make up the steering clutches.
He hasn't said if he has power steering assist or not. Those cylinders are run off reverser oil pressure. But, they leak into the trans, IIRC. And, again, no tell-tale rising of the trans oil level.
Gotta be going somewhere. And, I don't know how much oil loss equals loss of reverser operation.
Stan
Hydraulics are separate on a 350. Tank on the RH of the seat, pump out in front of the engine. Reverser has its own pump on the input shaft. Reverser housing is the tank. The oil goes to a cooling line in the radiator, so that might have been it. Or, past the seals into the bell housing or back into the trans. Trans uses the same oil, so it wouldn't be obvious but the level hasn't risen.
This is a B, so it has dry steering clutches. If it were a C or a D, reverser oil is used to make up the steering clutch packs, so it could be in one of those areas if a clutch seal failed. But, being a B, reverser oil isn't sent to the steering clutches. The B uses pressure plates to make up the steering clutches.
He hasn't said if he has power steering assist or not. Those cylinders are run off reverser oil pressure. But, they leak into the trans, IIRC. And, again, no tell-tale rising of the trans oil level.
Gotta be going somewhere. And, I don't know how much oil loss equals loss of reverser operation.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
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- MC crawler
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:36 pm
Re: 350 b reverser leak
Ok here is a update, The machine is a C, very sorry, my bad, three times I added reverser lube, removed radiator to have coolant leak repaired, cooler tested and held pressure, no sign of oil in cooling system, no change in trans level, located in southwestern Pa. Thanks to all
- gregjo1948
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA
Re: 350 b reverser leak
Being a "C" model 350, I'd check the steering clutch housings for excess fluid.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford
Re: 350 b reverser leak
Something just doesn't seem to add up to not seeing any leaks or compartments over full, to me. According to a 350C spec sheet on the Non-Current JD Construction equipment site the reverser holds 10 quarts. You say you used 15 gallons total in filling it 3 times. That would be an average of 5 gallons (20 quarts) each time, twice what it holds. If the transmission and steering clutches/finals are common sump, as it appears from posts on this and other sites, (I don't know first hand that they are), the transmission dipstick should show way over full. If they are not and the reverser oil is going directly to the steering clutches, they will be way over full, the spec sheet said they require 10 gallons of fluid, gaining 15 gallons would show. Is there a possibility that oil is pooling in the belly pans and running out while you are operating it? Is the back side of a sprocket damp? I wish I had TM1115, the 350C technical manual to study, do you have the manual so you can study the oil flows? Keep looking, its going somewhere.
Jim
Jim
Re: 350 b reverser leak
I'm a bit late to the party here but I'm with Jim about something isn't adding up. Knowing 350s like I do, there is no way in hells half acre you have put fifteen gallons of fluid in this thing without it showing up somewhere.
Your reverser is separate from the transmission. It has its own self contained sump and if you filled it completely to the top of the fill hole you would only get about five gallons of fluid in it. The reverser has no tie to any of the other components hydraulically. On a 350C & 350D the steering clutches are activated by reserve pressure from the reverser. If a seal is blown at one of the transfer tubes or perhaps a piston seal it can pump fluid inside the steering clutch housings. This is very rare and I have only ever seen it happen once or twice. If one does this, you will have issues with the clutch slipping on that side because the activation pressure is being lost.
If you do have a 350C, then the transmission, steering clutch housings and the final drives all have a common reservoir for the fluid they run in. It is not pressurized or pumped in any way.
Your reverser leak possibilities are limited to cooler lines or fittings leading to the cooler inside the radiator or the drive pump seals inside the bell housing or the seal on the output shaft where it connects to the transmission. There is a cavity there that could hold perhaps a couple of gallons or less. There is a weep hole in the bottom of the front bell housing of the reverser and the cavity between the reverser and the transmission. You may also have a valve body leaking fluid around one of the relief valves or the accumulator. Or worse yet you may have knocked a hole in the reverser case.
Every reverser leak that I ever encountered would show fluid some where. I'm not sure what to say here but something doesn't add up. That is an awful lot of fluid for it to not show. If you have poured as much fluid as you say then there has to be a hole somewhere big enough to throw a cat through.
Your reverser is separate from the transmission. It has its own self contained sump and if you filled it completely to the top of the fill hole you would only get about five gallons of fluid in it. The reverser has no tie to any of the other components hydraulically. On a 350C & 350D the steering clutches are activated by reserve pressure from the reverser. If a seal is blown at one of the transfer tubes or perhaps a piston seal it can pump fluid inside the steering clutch housings. This is very rare and I have only ever seen it happen once or twice. If one does this, you will have issues with the clutch slipping on that side because the activation pressure is being lost.
If you do have a 350C, then the transmission, steering clutch housings and the final drives all have a common reservoir for the fluid they run in. It is not pressurized or pumped in any way.
Your reverser leak possibilities are limited to cooler lines or fittings leading to the cooler inside the radiator or the drive pump seals inside the bell housing or the seal on the output shaft where it connects to the transmission. There is a cavity there that could hold perhaps a couple of gallons or less. There is a weep hole in the bottom of the front bell housing of the reverser and the cavity between the reverser and the transmission. You may also have a valve body leaking fluid around one of the relief valves or the accumulator. Or worse yet you may have knocked a hole in the reverser case.
Every reverser leak that I ever encountered would show fluid some where. I'm not sure what to say here but something doesn't add up. That is an awful lot of fluid for it to not show. If you have poured as much fluid as you say then there has to be a hole somewhere big enough to throw a cat through.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.
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- MC crawler
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Re: 350 b reverser leak
Leonardo, I agree fully, the machine suddenly lost forward propulsion when this loss of reverser fluid occurred, cooling system and cooler has been removed for radiator repair and cooler checked out fine
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