Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
- Manchas1227
- 40C crawler
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:43 pm
- Location: Brownsville PA
Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
Hi guys. I have a few questions regarding a purchase that I am wanting to make. I am wanting to buy a dozer with a six way blade. However, I am not sure which one would best suit what I am wanting to do. I am looking at either the 350, 450, or 450B. Of these three machines, which one would be easiest to work on in the event that I would need to replace or repair something? Which one would I not have a hard time finding parts for? I am wanting to purchase this machine to push large amounts of dirt as well as removing brush from in between trees on a 16-acre farm that I own. I won't be putting many hours on this machine--probably 50 hours or less a year. I also plan on possibly transporting the machine from one property to the next to complete other small jobs that people may want or need me to do. Ultimately, I am wondering which machine would be best for these types of jobs. Should I sacrifice power and go with something smaller in size or should I purchase something with more power? Also, I am wondering about turbos--do 350s come with turbos? What are the pros and cons of having a 450B versus a 450? Does a turbo prove to be a huge benefit or not? Thanks in advance!
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
Hi,
The 350s don't have turbos. Neither do the 450s until later in their game. I can't recall at just which letter. The 450s continue to today, Letter J, I think, and the 350s only went to D. The real change occurs at C in both series when they got wet steering clutches, which is a major improvement over the Straights and the Bs in both series.
The 350 is smaller and lighter than the 450, with a 3-cyl engine vs a 4. The 350 uses a simpler direction reverser to the 450 with a High/Low/Reverse, which is more useful. That part depends on just what you need a crawler dozer for. There are more 450s out there than 350s, so finding a decent one will probably be easier for a 450.
Stan
The 350s don't have turbos. Neither do the 450s until later in their game. I can't recall at just which letter. The 450s continue to today, Letter J, I think, and the 350s only went to D. The real change occurs at C in both series when they got wet steering clutches, which is a major improvement over the Straights and the Bs in both series.
The 350 is smaller and lighter than the 450, with a 3-cyl engine vs a 4. The 350 uses a simpler direction reverser to the 450 with a High/Low/Reverse, which is more useful. That part depends on just what you need a crawler dozer for. There are more 450s out there than 350s, so finding a decent one will probably be easier for a 450.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
- gregjo1948
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
You can trail a 350 series with a pickup truck but the 450s are a bit too heavy. I'd go with the 350s with a reverser. The B started putting the reverser lever on the left arm rest/battery box rather than on the dash. Much handier.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
Hi,
Also, I think anyway, the 350B was when the reverser became standard. On the Straight, it was an option. I had a 1968 Straight 350 minus the reverser. For sure, on the C and D, the reverser is standard because they use the reverser oil pump to work the wet steering clutches.
Stan
Also, I think anyway, the 350B was when the reverser became standard. On the Straight, it was an option. I had a 1968 Straight 350 minus the reverser. For sure, on the C and D, the reverser is standard because they use the reverser oil pump to work the wet steering clutches.
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
I have both a 350 and 450C, for cleaning brush around trees the 350 would be better choice
JIM
JIM
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
From your other post you already have a 450 loader so you know the size of a 450. Do you have provisions to safely move it around now? A450 dozer will be about the same size/weight, around 14,000 to 16000 lbs.. A 350C will be in the 10.000 to 12,000 lb. range. Do you expect to be pushing dirt more than cleaning around trees? For pushing dirt the 450 series will do more than the 350 series. Do you want to reduce power from what you have now with your current machine?
I see them as about the same to work on; some of the 350 components may be a little lighter to hand but they have the same basic parts. As Stan noted a good 450 series will likely be easier find, and to get parts for. You might want to consider looking for a 450C as well if you go with a 450 series.
I see them as about the same to work on; some of the 350 components may be a little lighter to hand but they have the same basic parts. As Stan noted a good 450 series will likely be easier find, and to get parts for. You might want to consider looking for a 450C as well if you go with a 450 series.
- Manchas1227
- 40C crawler
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:43 pm
- Location: Brownsville PA
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
I won't have an issue moving It place to place, but what about part availability? my 450 loader can be difficult at times to get certain parts. I wasn't sure if the 350s are more difficult since there's less of them or not.
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
I expect the parts issues will be about the same for either a 350 or 450 of similar series, as they run in the same vintage for the most part. Look in the FAQ section and you can see the serial numbers and years for the various series of each. The first straight 350s and 450s are 53 years old and the latest ones are 48 years old now. They stopped production of the 350 model with the D series in 1988. There may be some parts common to the older 450s and the current ones but I believe they are getting to be few as the current 450K series has evolved greatly from the original straight 450. Regardless of model, once a part shows as NLA in the Deere catalog your only choices are finding someone with NOS, aftermarket vendors, or used parts. In my opinion most parts are currently available for 350s and 450s but you will come across those hard to find parts on any of the machines you are asking about; as they are the same vintage as your 450 loader. Something we have to live with when running older machines. JMHO
- Manchas1227
- 40C crawler
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:43 pm
- Location: Brownsville PA
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
which one would be easier to work on of the two and do you think if I went 450 the turbo vs non turbo would be that much of a difference ?
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
Hi,
I used to use a 1520, 3/164 no turbo, and now use a 5103, 3/179 Turbo. No real difference until I mount a hay baler. Then, we have a hell of a difference when the baler hits a fat spot. The 1520 would bog and I would have to hit the clutch pedal. The 5103 just snorts and runs right thru it.
Yes, wheel tractors v crawlers. But both the JD350s I have had could slip tracks when I got too hoggish. So, all a turbo would do is slip them more. I expect a 450 would do the same. Unless you get some brand-new u/c to go with that turbo.
Stan
Edit: I forgot to mention the straight 350 and 350B and early 350C have 3/152 engines. Late 350C and 350D have 3/164. For the diesels. There were also gas engines, a little smaller at 3/136 IIRC. They still cover it in the C/D manual (TM is shared for C and D), but I have never personally seen a gas engine in anything other than a Straight 350.
I used to use a 1520, 3/164 no turbo, and now use a 5103, 3/179 Turbo. No real difference until I mount a hay baler. Then, we have a hell of a difference when the baler hits a fat spot. The 1520 would bog and I would have to hit the clutch pedal. The 5103 just snorts and runs right thru it.
Yes, wheel tractors v crawlers. But both the JD350s I have had could slip tracks when I got too hoggish. So, all a turbo would do is slip them more. I expect a 450 would do the same. Unless you get some brand-new u/c to go with that turbo.
Stan
Edit: I forgot to mention the straight 350 and 350B and early 350C have 3/152 engines. Late 350C and 350D have 3/164. For the diesels. There were also gas engines, a little smaller at 3/136 IIRC. They still cover it in the C/D manual (TM is shared for C and D), but I have never personally seen a gas engine in anything other than a Straight 350.
Last edited by Stan Disbrow on Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
Personally, I don't see working on either one as much easier than the other. Some of the 450 parts are a bit bigger and heavier, but not that much.
Turbo will give the same size engine a noticeable bit more at times as Stan noted. You would notice it when really pushing hard.
Turbo will give the same size engine a noticeable bit more at times as Stan noted. You would notice it when really pushing hard.
- gregjo1948
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:58 am
- Location: Newark Valley,NY,USA
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
I don't remember if all the 350 series and 450 series machines have power assisted steering but, I would recommend trying to find one with it.
JD 350B diesel 6way blade, Case 580B Loader/backhoe, Farmall 504 high crop w/ flail boom mower, International 404 , International 284 diesel w/belly mower, 1972 Ford F600 dump truck, Galion 3-5 roller, Allis Chalmers D17, 1620 Ford
- Stan Disbrow
- 350 crawler
- Posts: 2898
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm
- Location: Raleigh, NC
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
Hi,
On the Straights and the B's with dry clutches, power steering was optional. Beginning with the C, the wet clutches have it automatically as the steering part is done by removing oil pressure from the clutch pack via a valve (not pulling against the spring pressure of a pressure plate).
Stan
On the Straights and the B's with dry clutches, power steering was optional. Beginning with the C, the wet clutches have it automatically as the steering part is done by removing oil pressure from the clutch pack via a valve (not pulling against the spring pressure of a pressure plate).
Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
I have a 450C track loader. The "C"s have the oil filled clutches as previously mentioned which are better especially if the machine will sit unused for extended periods of time. One thing no one has mentioned, if you are tall (I am 6'5") you might fit better in the 450 operator station. Also, commonality of parts between your existing machine and the new candidate will make keeping spares easier.
Rick
Rick
- Manchas1227
- 40C crawler
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:43 pm
- Location: Brownsville PA
Re: Weighing out options--Which dozer should I buy? A 450, 450B, or a 350?
I've found a B model and the guy went down to 4000 he game me more detailed pictures and as far as I can see the UC is around 30%, hour meter doesn't work and all of the gauges doesn't. has some steering trouble and track problem? I'm not sure what he means about it but I'm thinking its pumped out to max to its seized up. think I should jump on it or pass?
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