Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

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Weston
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Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Weston » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:46 pm

John Deere 550G LT & 400G LT

My biggest concern is the transmissions (which is more reliable/durable/least exspensive to work on)
But any real world info is appreciated.

I'm strongly concidering buying one of these dozers
Both are bare back used in construction/never seen the forest.

To be used on the farm:
roads, building pads on hillside, cleaning up behind the PC 150 excavator.

400G LT 2600hrs $18k + 1k transport
needs nothing
Serial# T0400GC772596
"High/low 3 speed direct drive shuttle shift"


550G LT 2900hrs $15k + 2k transport
will need undercarriage & hydraulic pump soon new cutting edges, muffler, seat cover, all fluids & filters, shims removed from trunnion pivot ball.
I Could get 1k hrs out of currant undercarriage with new track adjuster seals
Serial# T0550GH815545
powershift non Torque converter

Only reason I'm concidering the 400 is it's in excellent condition! with great records.

Both machines are original owner.
The 550 doesn't have any records.
All oil samples on the 550 came back "green" except the hydraulic fluid has copper at 201 ppm.
I assume a new pump and loop system flush is in its future for the 550


Happy holidays !

Jim B
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Jim B » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:34 pm

I will start by saying I have no experience with either of those models. Just from looking at specs it would seem the first part of your decision is what size crawler do you want? To me you are comparing two different class machines as far as production capacity. The 400 was kind of a replacement/follow up for the 350D, with a bit more power. One of the things I have read is they wore the grousers quickly, most attribute this to the increased power with minimal weight increase from the 350D. The 400G has less power and weight than a 450G. The 550 was a step up in size and power from the 450G. Either the 400G or 550G will likely do the work you mentioned. To me the 550G should do it quicker and with less strain. I have to believe the 20 HP more and 2-1/2 ton more weight will make a difference, along with the transmission, in the performance of the 550G compared to the 400G. Do you think the work you want to do is going to tax the capabilities of the 400G ( "excellent condition! with great records")? If you didn't know about that 400G would you be considering a 400 series, or just looking for 550s?

400G LT
60 HP net, 188 ft.lb. torque, 12,200 lb. approximate operating weight. 4 speed transmission with H-L-R reverser.

(just for comparison: 450G LT
70 HP net, 228 ft.lb. torque, 16,000 lb. approximate operating weight, Powershift 4 speed transmission, direct drive or torque convertor.)

550G LT
80 HP net, 260 ft.lb. torque, 17,700 approximate operating weight. Powershift 4 speed transmission, direct drive.

Weston
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Weston » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:15 pm

Thanks for the reply.

Around here used JD dozers are most common
So I've adapted.


I have been looking at equipment for close to two years and for now the prices keep going up, I'm getting closer and closer to needing a dozer to complete projects.

I'm at the mercy of what's available (within inspection distance)

I've driven thousands of miles looking at equipment and these two dozers are standing tall above the rest.

I would not be searching for a 400

A jd450 is about as small as I want to go.

The 400
Is in the race only because it's condition and location (400) miles away.

Do I roll the dice on the inexpensive 550 knowing it has sore feat and "questionable" maintenance or buy the nicest dozer I can afford (400g) ?


if the 400 transmission is as reliable or more reliable than the power shift I would guess the 400 would cost me less in repairs as it's in better condition with new UC, blade skin, cutting edges and the blade linkage is very tight. The 400 has had the best care I've seen on a dozer.
Last edited by Weston on Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jim B
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Jim B » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:52 pm

In what general area are you located?

Weston
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Weston » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:00 pm

About 2hrs south of portland

Jim B
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Jim B » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:16 pm

Which Portland?

Weston
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Weston » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:22 pm

Oregon

JWB Contracting
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by JWB Contracting » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:09 pm

I’m a real fan of the G series Crawlers now that I’ve put some seat time on a 650G narrow pad with 5500 original hours. The extra weight and power over a 450C wide pad and 450G narrow pad we used previously is impressive. I’m cleaning up some deadfall / wind blow downs on 20 acres in conjunction with a powershift 440B Deere skidder.

And what a just found out a few months ago was that the transmission on the G series comes out of the back of the rear case. This would keep the labour costs very cheap to repair vs a C series 450 / 400G.

I ended up with 3 G series sidebooms from the company I work for and range in hours from 6,500 to 12,000 hours. They are mint even after being driven down frozen ROW with ice lugs, where older models would have fallen apart. I’m the controller so I know the history and checked the repairs records and costs on them. When they put new chains and pads when the sealed rails started to squeak on one of them I took them home and cut the pads down to fit our 450C loader.

The frames, crossmembers and track frames are a copy of what Caterpillar did on the D3 crawler. This is what a D3 sells for more than a 450C or older 550. So the G has cat toughness with a better engine and direct drive quick and efficient powershift transmission with decelerator.

My recommendation would be to look for a G series machine and or have the cheaper one inspected by your local deer dealer for added assurance.
Jason Benesch

John Deere 420, 430, 440 & 350C With 3 Point Hitch
John Deere 400G With Winch
John Deere 2010 Crawler Dozer
John Deere 420, 430, 435 & 440 Wheel Tractors

Weston
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Weston » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:35 pm

Thanks
I had the cat/JD dealer out to pull oil samples and look it over.
Honestly I was less than satisfied with the inspection and what little info I received from them.

The tech didn't seem to know much about anything older than the H series JD

I asked the tech to hook gauges up and he said it's not needed....

Even though the hydraulic and transmission warning lights flicker.
He said new filters and fluids should fix the warning lights coming on and off.

If I go further with the 550 I'll buy the seller some filters and take the old ones off and cut them open.

I'm pretty confident I can run the 400 without repairs or "issues" unless of course that old style H-LR trans isn't a good design ?

Not so confident in what the future holds for the 550
Around here $15k is a pretty low price for a running 550 of any series. G series 550's are getting high 20's to low 30's

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Stan Disbrow » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:36 am

Hi,

Jason knows this stuff, that is for sure. I don't go newer or larger than the 350 C/D series, so this is out of my ken, so to speak.

But, read my tag line. That holds true regardless of era or size of machine. You get to choose: Money up front, or time spent and parts bought.

Me, if I were doing it from the beginning, I think i would go buy one only a few years old. As it was, I knew the 350 was the exact right size for me. And, it took me over 10 years to find a good one because they are old. Yeah. We call this the Late Model forum, but even a 350D is old these days. It is relative to the MC, see.... ;)

Heck, reading what Jason just said, I want one of those newer 450's! :)

Stan
There's No Such Thing As A Cheap Crawler!

Useta Have: '58 JD 420c 5-roller w/62 inside blade
Useta Have: '78 JD350C w/6310 outside blade
Useta Have: '68 JD350, '51 Terratrac GT-25
Have: 1950 M, 2005 x495, 2008 5103 (now known as 5045D)

Weston
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Weston » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:37 am

Thanks
I'm not a fan of all the electronics/hydrostatics on the newer machines, sure they are great when they're running properly, but hooking laptops up to equipment "don't turn me on" & it leaves me at the mercy of a tech for repairs.
nor do I have 50-100k to drop on a dozer...
Last edited by Weston on Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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NWJD fan
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by NWJD fan » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:48 pm

I believe a 400 is more or less a 450C drive train on a 350 undercarriage. Somewhere on this forum there were some comments about them not being that good at putting the extra power to the ground.

Weston
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Weston » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:31 pm

Thanks.
I'm pretty familiar with the manufacturer specs on both dozers, I've also ran both.

guess what id realy like to know is which transmission is more durable less exspensive to work on (once the transmission is out)

550 most likely has never had a hydraulic, trans or final drive fluid change, looks like they just changed filters as I doubt they put die back in the fluid to make it red again.


550 with poor maintenance
Or 400 with excalant maintenance ?
Both have about 3k hrs

Is the 550 tough enough to withstand 3k hrs of poor maintenance used only to cut house pads in material that looks to be "dirty bar run" ?

tje
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by tje » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:44 pm

I don't know much about the 400 but the G series transmissions are quite easy to deal with. Just took mine out a few weeks ago and it took about an hour. I had a mechanic take it to his shop and tore it down in a few hours. If you can get to the strainer screen under the floor panel you can see just how bad the clutch and brake plates might be worn and lodged in the screen filter. If you test drive it you can generally check the wear on the transmission plates by the feel between gears. Mine slipped in 1st/2nd which assume is most heavily used and I found lots of clutch plate pieces in the screen. Partially clogged screen will cause the dash transmission light to go on or flicker. I also had a completely new under carriage done by a local shop and it was about $5500 turn key.
John Deere 410 Backhoe & 455G Track Loader

Weston
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Re: Dozer purchase JD Dozer comparison/info

Post by Weston » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:40 pm

Thanks for the info.

How many hours where on the trans when pulled ?

I'm definitely leaning more towards the 550

That's a smoking deal on the undercarriage lowest quote I got for complete undercarriage was $7300 in parts, but that's all rollers, idlers, sprockets, pads, rails adjuster seals & all bolts


Is it normal for the muffler to rust out in 3k hrs ?
The muffler has holes big enough to put my hand in, the stack flapper is missing and I don't know for how long.. at least the holes have been keeping water from getting in the motor....

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