455G cranked then died, fuel supply related

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
Post Reply
jwalk2c
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:18 pm
Location: Claremont NC

455G cranked then died, fuel supply related

Post by jwalk2c » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:12 am

I have a 1997 455G with 1100 hours, that has always cranked easily.
This week it cranked up and ran for a minute then suddenly the engine died.
I began troubleshooting and the first thing I noticed that when I removed the fuel cap the tank was pressurized.
I then checked for fuel going into the pump, “check”, and I tried to pump the lever on fuel pump but I was not getting any resistance.
I loosened bleed screw on the fuel filter and was able to see some slight pressure bubbles though not many.
Next, I check for fuel going into the pump, “check”. Fuel going out of one of the pump injector lines “no”
Ignition on hearing the click sound of the solenoid.
I kept fiddling with losing lines where I had fuel and turning engine briefly and finally with fuel lever at full throttle it cranked. But for a minute it ran rough and did not respond to throttle control as it should.
Now it is running fine.
My question is:
1. In my service manual TM1404 “If there is a hiss when you remove fuel cap (replace fuel cap)
2. My fuel transfer pump has a slow drip, and the hand pump lever I mentioned I could not feel resistance when I moved back and forth, I realized if I pull it towards me fairly hard all of the sudden it budged and I felt the pressure, but a small amount of fuel squirts out of fuel pump housing with each stroke. So I think I need to change the fuel pump which new is about $90.
I was lucky this time that it did not start when it was in the work area. In fact, I have had this loader 2 years and have not got to use it yet. I have been trying to do the 1000 hour service before I put it to work. I enjoy working on it as a hobby.
It came from a state park and I have no record of what’s been done to it. So far I have flushed the cooling system, and am changing the engine oil, but I have a long way to go. All the fluids have to be changed at 1000 hours. And I am fixing every little thing that I can find.
If anyone can advise if I should change fuel cap just because of fuel pressure build up in the tank I would appreciate it. The Service Manual does say so.
And since the fuel transfer pump is leaking should I go ahead and change it? I am not familiar with how the primer lever should function, so I cannot tell if mine is working correctly or not. I did try it at different engine cam positions though that did not have any effect.
Thank you
Johnny Walker

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: 455G cranked then died, fuel supply related

Post by Jim B » Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:12 am

1. Leave the fuel cap loose while starting and checking this out, then loosen it occasionally when running until you get it replaced. The parts catalog for the cap shows pressure relief/vacuum break options in it. If the tank was pressurized, as you posted, I would say something there isn't working right and should be replaced. The pressure could affect return fuel flow. If it cools and holds a vacuum it could hinder starting and/or pull air in the leak at the fuel transfer pump
2. The transfer pump shouldn't leak. - Replace it. If it leaks fuel there is always the possibility air can enter the system. Be sure you have your crawler and engine serial numbers as there are two different pumps depending on serial number according to the parts catalog. As for the lever stroke, most aren't big strokes and they can vary with position on the cam lobe. Change the pump to fix the leak and the stroke will be ok on the new pump.
3. You should get clear fuel at the bleed screws when the air is all out, not fuel and some bubbles.
4. You said after checking fuel to the injection pump, you checked for fuel to an injector. What you did is not clear to me. Did you have the ignition switch on and use the primer pump? Or did you crank the engine over with the starter when checking the injector?
5. You say, "I kept fiddling with losing lines where I had fuel and turning engine briefly and finally with fuel lever at full throttle it cranked." If the engine was turning with the starter it was cranking. I think you mean you turned (cranked) it with the starter and it finally started.
6. It normally works best to loosen the high pressure lines at all, not just one, of the injectors at the same time when bleeding them. Crank the engine over and tighten the lines as you see each one gets fuel. They will likely show fuel at different times not all at the same time.
7. You will find in the parts catalog there is a strainer or filter (different depending on serial number) in the bottom of your fuel tank. It may not have an issue but be aware there is one. Doing anything to it will require draining the tank.

You say you have Technical Manual TM 1404. Do you also have TM 1403 which is the Operation and Test technical manual? That one should have more of the diagnostic info in it to go with the TM1404 Repair Manual. The Operator's manual is OMT163973. If you don't know about the Parts Catalogs on line you can access those at https://jdparts.deere.com/servlet/com.d ... nguage=19 . HTH

Jim

jwalk2c
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:18 pm
Location: Claremont NC

Re: 455G cranked then died, fuel supply related

Post by jwalk2c » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:04 am

Let me begin by apologizing for taking so long to thank you .
You have provided great information,

1.I am going to look on my cap for a vent. The system was pressurized. I have a friend who works on equipment who said to drill hole in brass mesh vent in cap instead of cleaning it, however I would rather clean it, but I am not sure my cap has a vent.

2.I have a new transfer pump ordered from my local dealer that I am picking up as soon as I can get back on this project.
Talked to two different dealers concerning the transfer pump p/n, long and short finger, by engine s/n , cannot positively id the long and short finger pump, so worst case scenario is I have to return one after I compare my old pump. (Hopefully my engine has not had pump replaced and has correct original pump from factory)

3.Had some bubbles at fuel filter bleed screw, so there was air.

4.I only loosed injector line, did not have ign switch on or pump with lever. I am not familiar with diesel injection systems, and I thought that there would be fuel pressure there.

5.It cranked with the throttle lever at the wide open position and had to be turned over several seconds, which is not normally required. This engine always cranks with just a bump of starter.

6. Great advice, I only loosened one injector line and I did not crank over, so now with your instructions I should be able to bleed system.

7. I plan to drain tank just to get rid of the old fuel and start fresh with new pump and fuel filter. My tank has the cone shaped drain housing, which I have kept drained, but I will have to look again in the manuals for the strainer. I get about a 1/4 of rusty fuel, but then it runs clear. I also have a strainer at the fuel fill inlet I am going to remove , clean , and shine a light into tank .

jwalk2c
40C crawler
40C crawler
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:18 pm
Location: Claremont NC

Re: 455G cranked then died, fuel supply related

Post by jwalk2c » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:43 am

Thanks to everyone’s help I was able to install new transfer pump, cleaned out all the gummed up fuel cutoff valve, all fittings, vents, drains etc. that were also gummed up. Cleaned out the line from tank to pump, drained the tank of old diesel.
I learned you have to position cam at just the right rotation in order for fuel pump primer to actually pump fuel,
I cleaned out both fuel cap vent and pressure relief valves. Mine must be a slight older style with the wire mesh and valves. And small ball bearings that you can drill out and replace. I am not sure why you would need to do this, but I bought them anyway. I noticed a picture of replacement cap and it only has brass mesh for vent. I also decided to change out the fuel cap vent and pressure relief valve since they are still available. I replaced the cap sealing gasket as well. Also cleaned the tank inlet strainer.
My fuel tank does not have the strainer at the tank outlet, and according to the parts catalog this is correct. So all I had to do there was take the cutoff valve apart and clean out the old gummed diesel.
At the glass fuel filter (in truck parts we called them Stanadyne) the drain fitting and bleed fitting were both completely compacted and blocked with built up dirt and fuel. And the rubber seals were in bad shape. I was able to clean those aluminum drain fittings, but replaced with new anyway, and of course the rubber seals.
The short fuel line from pump to filter base needed the fitting ferrules cleaned and a wire brush took care of that. Now they rotate freely and make a good seal.
I noticed the fitting coming out of the back of old fuel transfer pump was bent as you may be able to tell in the picture. . It is a bear to get that fuel line to line up and connect as you have to angle the fitting on the pump just right... I had the pump of several times before I could connect without forcing line.
I am trying to go over this loader with a fine tooth comb. I removed all the sheet metal and have cleaned out the dirt on transverse case, and emptied the dirt from the belly pans. I like the way the belly pans bolt up on the Deere compared to Cat, but you have to reach up in with you had to scoop out all the dirt. The pans are smaller is the reason.
Compared to a Caterpillar 935 that I owned so far everything I have worked on the Deere is a much better design. But that has been minor stuff, I can’t comment on the major stuff. I sold Cat engine parts for 35 years so I know Cat is well made.
I want to add pictures , but I must not have permission. I contacted the moderator and as soon as I am allowed I will post.
Thank you
Johnny Walker

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 62 guests