What would you do?

[waterflea]

As I mentioned in my first post, I am new to this site and just purchased a '71 JD 450B with about 4000 hrs on it. According to the previous owner
It hasn't been started in about 4 years and rarely used in the last ten plus years he has owned it. I put two new batteries in it, a shot of starting fluid
and she started right up. Runs great! Main clutch not working which I figured out why and discussed in my first post and the left clutch is stuck. I pull
back on the stick and nothing happens. I was able to move it using the right stick and shuttling back and forth from forward and reverse but can''t shift
gears because of the clutch problem. How would you tackle these issues? What fluids and oils would you replace if any? How should I proceed to make this a usable dozer?
Thanks

[Jim B]

waterflea,

If your engine (main) clutch is not releasing when you push the pedal down it is not because of the retainer spring (M226T) you say is missing. That spring just ensures the throwout bearing carrier comes away from the pressure plate finger when you are not pressing down on the clutch. The engine clutch not disengaging when you push the pedal down could because the clutch disc is stuck to the flywheel or pressure plate from setting, there may be a problem with the pressure plate preventing it from releasing, or such. If it is just stuck it might come loose if it gets a shock load. The best fix is to pull the engine so you can find out what is wrong and fix it. Replace the missing retainer spring at that time.

The short answer on your left steering clutch is you need to pull that apart to fix it properly as well. If nothing happens when you pull the lever, it might be several things. The steering clutch pack may be stuck, there may be compromised linkage, non-working brake, etc. When you get your manuals, you can run the adjustments but it is likely more than adjustment from your description.

Was it setting inside or outside? You should change all the fluids and filters, unless you know it was current on service when parked and can be sure it hasn’t collected water from setting for 4 years.

JMHO

Jim

[B Town]

Rarely these frozen issues go away with use. These frozen clutch issues can’t be sprayed with any lubricants or solvents. To make your machine useable, you will most likely need to disassemble the respective components, loosen, rebuild and reassemble.

Best regards, Bruce

[gregjo1948]

If you didn't understand what Jim B meant about shock load; I believe the main clutch may break free if you push the clutch pedal and drive the machine into an immovable object. I like using a large maple tree along my driveway.

[waterflea]

Installing the return spring through the site hole in the top of the clutch housing was a success and actually very easy. I created a small light that I could insert into the hole and light up the inside of the case. That allowed me to see inside without holding a flashlight which really gets in the way of your line of site and frees up both your hands. Next I looped a string through the spring just in case I dropped it I would be able to retrieve it again. Using long, bent end needle nose pliers I was able to insert each end of the spring through a hole on the aft end and around the nub on the throw out bearing. Pulled the string out after I knew it was in place. Worked perfectly on the first try.
That being said, the next problem is why, when the clutch is fully depressed does it not release enough to shift into another gear without grinding. Just got one of my manuals so will check clutch adjustment to see if that helps. If not, I may be pulling the motor to check or replace the clutch. How hard is it to pull the motor on a 450B?
Problem #3. Left steering clutch stuck and won't release. I tracked down an old mechanic down the road familiar with these old dozers and his suggestion was to add diesel fuel to the housing, let it set for awhile, see if it wouldn't loosen things up. He said it has worked for him in the past. I have read different opinions on doing this but I'm thinking what could it hurt. If it works great, if not, I'd be tearing it apart anyhow. Any thoughts?
One last thing, what motor oil should I be using in this? Someone said straight 30.

[Jim B]

Glad you were able to get the spring in place. Sounds like it didn't make a change in the clutch function though. Yes, check the adjustment, maybe you will be lucky with that.

It is not hard to pull the engine. Half a day, 5 hours, should have it out; less than a day in any case. How long it actually takes to pull an engine is a function of you, your tools, and your set up to handle the components. JWB Contracting (Jason) can likely tell you what he plans on to pull one in their shop. If you have the JD technical manual (TM1033) it has info on teardown and assembly for components, you can review to see what is involved. If that is not the manual you have, There is a copy of that one on line you can download for free at https://archive.org/details/John_Deere_Company.

The steering clutches on most 450B’s should be dry clutches, I believe. I would not put diesel, kerosene, penetrating oil or any such thing in contact with dry clutches, it will contaminate them, as well as the steering brake, and if they work after they will likely slip and the life will be shorter. An engine clutch is a dry clutch and those fail if soaked in oil, why wouldn't a steering dry type steering clutch react the same to an oil. I understand there were some of the late 450B that had wet clutches as they were changing over to the 450C. You need to check what your steering clutches are. Oil clutches don't usually stick, so if you have oil clutches you likely have other problems and to fix it right it needs to come apart; with either type steering clutch. Check that the linkages are adjusted properly and all are moving. If it has power steering check that it is working on that side. If all the linkages are right and it still doesn't work, plan on a tear down to fix it correctly.

I would use a 15W40 diesel oil in the engine.

Always check with Lavoy for parts he knows and sells quality parts. He works on John Deere crawlers. If you have a problem with anything you get from him or and need advice, he is available to back up what he sells (not like a lot of the places that just sell parts). He doesn’t have what you need, he can likely suggest a good source.

Just my thoughts and opinions. Good luck with the repairs.

JIm