350 B winch on a 350

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Jason37756
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350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jason37756 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:17 pm

I've read thru the forums and found a lot of great info, but still have a question.

I am getting ready to buy a 350 B with the 3315 winch. I am wanting to install the winch onto my 350 straight...will it work?

I have no experience with a winch for this machine, but assume it connects to the PTO shaft and is engaged via a cable.

The owner of the 350 B tells me that the reverser controls the winch somehow...again I don't know, but if this is the case then will my 350 straight run it?

Thanks

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Stan Disbrow
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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Stan Disbrow » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:43 am

Hi,

Winch drive is different from PTO drive. Shorter. The end of the winch shaft barely clears the rear of the trans plate. PTO drive sports an in/out lever on top of the trans case. Winch drive does not.

Reverser has to always be in forward when running the winch. So, you need a reverse gear in the trans. Many 350s were made without either the winch drive or PTO shaft, and those did not have a reverse in the trans.

So, you will have to see what bits your 350 happens to have. The internal drive for either shaft is inside the trans, so with a little work you could pull the winch shaft and move it over. If you don't have a reverse gear in the trans, then you won't be able to reverse the machine while winching is all.

The winch has its own in/out control which is cable operated by a lever alongside the right of the seat (bolts to the side box).

Stan
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Jim B
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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jim B » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:41 am

Good morning,

Stan hit the key points. If you didn't see them, there are several recent posts about winches on 350s in the recent pages of this forum, that will add to your insight of this. The 3315 model winch was used on 350s so it should fit. I believe the first 3315 winches used on the 350s had a remote control valve mounted under the seat and the filter was in a different location from the later winches (which the 350B should have) with the integrated control valve. I think the mounts and winch shaft components were the same on straight 350s and the Bs.

Another thing some have mentioned is they had to raise the fuel tank for clearance. It may not be needed but is something to be aware of it filter clearance turns out to be an issue.

You can/should go to the John Deere parts catalogs on line (https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/search) and compare the components, drive and mounting, of the winch when mounted on a 350 and a 350B. (Search 350 and 350B as models, the winch is a section in the parts of each).

Jim

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Jason37756
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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jason37756 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:13 am

thanks for the info.

my 350 does have the pto shaft, however from what i have read this winch will simply be too tight against the rear plate to fit onto the pto shaft.

the asking price is $4500 and has been setting outside for a few years. the crawler starts but does not move... i assume the drive clutches are rusted together, but the owner thinks it is a broken shaft in the transmission...either way this is a fixer upper or a really nice parts machine. the undercarriage is worn to 90%-95% too.

the real interest to me is the winch and if it doesn't fit i may have to pass on it.

thoughts?

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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jim B » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:05 pm

Jason,

As Stan posted the winch needs a different shaft, not the PTO shaft. There is a photo of a winch drive shaft in this post viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12592 . If you have a PTO shaft you will have to swap it out for the winch drive shaft.

When you look at the parts there are mounting brackets between the winch and crawler, so the winch is about 4"+/- off the rear of the crawler. I think they are the same for the 350 and 350B, so they would be on the other crawler. Study the parts in the on line catalog, I think most of the 350B parts fit. and you say the winch is already on it so it should be complete. You have more parts to deal with than just bolting a winch on, however you go.

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Jason37756
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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jason37756 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:13 pm

I went and looked over the winch this evening and thought about switching the shaft as stated...you guys are right it is a tight fit, I could barely see enough to make out the different shaft.

Now my question is how will the winch be engaged when I get it onto my 350? Since I will not have the hydraulic setup...from what I can see there is a valve on the winch that I assume engages, brakes, and free spools the winch?? Kinda makes me wonder why the hydraulics are even there IF a valve is on the winch.

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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jim B » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:36 pm

The 3315 is a self contained winch. The pump and hydraulic system is built in/on the winch if it is complete. Those components all show in the parts catalog.

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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jason37756 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:48 pm

That's what I was thinking...so what is the purpose for the hydraulic valve under the seat?

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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jim B » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:42 am

Hi Jason,

If the winch you are looking at has the remote valve under the seat with hoses to the winch it may be one of the early 3315 winches. The remote valve shows in the 350 parts catalog. The 350b catalog shows the winch mounted rotary valve, a production change. My understanding is there was a time when JD replaced failed rotary valves with a spool valve as a service change, I can't remember right now if the service change valve was winch or remote mounted, and like most anything some might have been mounted in either place.

This isn't cast in stone but you may be able to tell if it is an early winch by looking at the filter housing and where the filter is mounted.The filter mount is about flush with the top of the winch housing and to the left of center on the original remote valve winches. The filter is right of center and about flush the top of the winch housing on the rotary valve winches. The rotary valve is located about where the filter was on the earlier remote valve winches. If the filter is right of center and it has a remote valve, I would guess it has had a service valve installed. (left and right based on setting in the seat) Go to page 2, about the 9th or 10th post down -350C Winch Install, and read through it. That post has more on this (and a photo of the remote valve winch) and the differences found when Warrior0677 was putting an early winch on his 350C. Here is a photo of a rotary valve winch so you can see the differences. Several fellows may add some more info on this subject. HTH

Jim

http://jdcrawlers.lcent.com:8000/johnde ... _winch.jpg

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gregjo1948
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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:18 am

Jason37756 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:13 am
thanks for the info.

my 350 does have the pto shaft, however from what i have read this winch will simply be too tight against the rear plate to fit onto the pto shaft.

the asking price is $4500 and has been setting outside for a few years. the crawler starts but does not move... i assume the drive clutches are rusted together, but the owner thinks it is a broken shaft in the transmission...either way this is a fixer upper or a really nice parts machine. the undercarriage is worn to 90%-95% too.

the real interest to me is the winch and if it doesn't fit i may have to pass on it.

thoughts?
I hope I'm not double posting this but, I don't know if it posted the first time. The machine will drive with frozen clutches but, it won't turn. If the machine doesn't move, good chance the coupler between the reverser and the trans. has stripped. if so, the shafts, it connects, may be damaged also. Check to see if the housings between the trans. and the reverser are spread apart. If they are, it misaligns the coupler and shafts and causes them to strip.Big job to repair. Lavoy has the parts to replace the damaged parts. Not sure if you ment the undercarriage is 90% shot or 90% good. If it's shot, and with the coupler stripped, I wouldn't pay much for it. Very big parts expense for undercarriage and a lot of heavy labor and most of the machine will be torn apart to fix all that's in need of repair.
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Jason37756
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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jason37756 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:22 am

great info here guys.

gregjo1948,

the undercarriage is 90% shot. the shear coupler in this dozer was recently replaced and may have snapped again due to an underlying issue. the owner states that he has replaced some items in the transmission such as shafts and bearings. one thing to note is the tracks roll when pulled or pushed and the right side brake engages. when the owner moved the dozer he was able to steer it while being pulled. leads me to believe something has sheared and or stripped.

the dozer starts and runs great with strong hydraulics...just has no drive to the transmission/ finals. I can't see any housing separation without removing the floor panel, so that will be one of the things to check in the days to come.

Jim B,

The valve is definitely under the seat and has lines going toward the winch, so it appears to be what we are thinking. I can't see where the filter is located or if the winch still has the rotary valve. Makes me wonder if the spool valve was installed what was done with the rotary valve?...some sort of bypass or coupler installed in it's place.

Thanks for the info guys!

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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jim B » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:27 am

The filter would be visible between the front of the winch and the back of the crawler. The rotary valve is in the same area and would be visible if there but would have been removed to attach the remote valve hoses. Is the model/serial number tag still on the top of the winch ahead of the drum?

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Jason37756
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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jason37756 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:32 am

yes the model number is there "3315", but i did not check the serial number. it is there i just didn't write it down. i will have the dozer in my possession this evening, so we will have all kinds of fun then.

i could see the filter yesterday evening, but did not notice a valve, so it could have been removed for the service...all this sounds like a win for me as the winch is my primary interest. seems as if all i need to do is tap into my existing hydraulics and install the winch spool valve.

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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jim B » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:39 am

The pump is inside the winch, you can't see it. The crawler hydraulic pressure is higher than the winch uses, so it shouldn't be supplied off the crawler hydraulics. When you get it home you can chase the hoses from the valve, they should all connect to the winch, not the crawler hydraulic system.

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Jason37756
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Re: 350 B winch on a 350

Post by Jason37756 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:45 am

oh...i see! alot of things make sense now!

awesome...fun when one has that moment when the lights come on. i knew the winch was its own hydraulic system, but couldn't figure out how that worked with the dozer. winch drive shaft is the only real interaction.

https://pin.it/blezz6ly44enkk

https://pin.it/gs2zwjp44crkqk

here are two pictures.

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