HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

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cordlesscarpeter
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HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by cordlesscarpeter » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:10 am

Hello everyone, I've just purchased a 450 Crawler Loader (Diesel) and am doing my very best to both familiarize myself with the machine, do a full tune-up, fluid swap, health check-up from stem to stern, etc. My first challenge is knowing exactly what I have on my hands... I have owned/operated other tractors and crawlers but am new to the JD family. I'm almost positive the machine I have is a late 60's/early 70's 450 (not a 450B or 450C) but need help with a positive ID. Here's where it gets tricky... The factory label plate with the serial number for the machine itself, on the kick plate behind your right heel, is missing. Is there anywhere else on the machine that the actual machine's serial number would be located? Or is there a way of cross-referencing the engine/loader serial numbers to know the machine they were attached to?

I'm 44 yrs old and just retired from a career as a mechanical engineer and machinist. Within the next two years I will be moving to Northwest Montana to build a life (one might say homestead) and bought this machine to not only clear driveways, building sites and paths through a remote property but will also be using it for logging every last timber for a self built timber frame workshop, house, etc... as well as a little help lifting said timbers into place and other misc chores. The machine came with a bucket, forks, PTO logging winch and log arch, and a 450 service manual printed in Feb 1967 (not sure if it is original and has been passed on or if it was bought later on in it's life with an assumption they were buying the right manual). The Diesel engine was also said to have been rebuilt in 2012, it has brand new chains and new aggressive track pads (also came with old chain and smoothish pads for less damage if needed), most grousers/rollers are new, and both steering clutches (reported as dry clutches) are good (one new, the other not much older). It also came with "previous owner added" ROPS.

On initial inspection, the fluids are all good (will change all anyways, just because), the engine starts right up every time and sounds very healthy, the machine tracks straight, seems to have power for days, hydraulics are strong, controls are tight and track is adjusted properly.

With all the knowledge out there, I'm hoping for not only help from the community with identifying the machine so I can buy correct parts and such, but also any knowledge that you can pass on from experience on best fluids to use, major/minor repairs to prepare for, maintenance tips, operation tips and techniques, and I guess any other random advice you think I may benefit from.

I'll post some pics as soon as I figure out how. I've been cleaning her up here and there and have done a few things so far like new seats and some rust removal but mainly checking fluids, tinkering around, greasing her up (with paragon 3000) and putting her through her paces.

I have already learned so much from this site in the short time I've been on here and am looking forward to the replies! Thanks in advance!!!

B Town
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by B Town » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:39 am

Welcome to the JD crawler site.

I don't believe there is another SN # location on your machine. Some of the later series machines had the SN # stamped in the metal under the aluminum SN tag. These #'s can be hard to see b/c they get filled in with paint. It may be worth scratching where the tag was originally placed. You may be able to do some investigating in the parts book and look for SN# break and look for unique parts numbers on your crawler. You may be able to at least narrow it down.

Online parts info at
https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/

Labor has a site dedicated pic server. You can read about it in the FAQ section. To gain access you must email Lavoy. There is a history of hacking the site and then the whole "photobucket " loss issue.

It sounds lovely like a great machine, well equipped. Probably a 450 Straight. Dry steering clutches, best to be stored under a roof with the steer levers pulled back.
Best regards, Bruce

Jim B
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by Jim B » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:04 pm

As B town posted look for other numbers, like the fuel injection pump. Admittedly it may have been changed, but you may find the pump numbers in the parts catalog which might put it in a serial number range as pumps were changed at times during production runs.

Does it have a reverser as well as transmission or just a plain transmission?

Jason37756
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by Jason37756 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:31 pm

I've never owned a C model, but I would simply remove the seat and look for two square clutch housing covers...remove the 4 bolt (if there) and look inside...if you have the straight or B model then you'll have the plate and dry clutch to look at. If not then it's another model.

Sounds like a solid dozer! A few pictures and someone here could easily identify it.

Jason

Jim B
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by Jim B » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:27 pm

Some of the late model 450Bs had the wet clutches, so a wet clutch machine could be a 450B.

cordlesscarpeter
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by cordlesscarpeter » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:26 pm

Guys, thanks for all the info! it was all good info! If it stops raining tomorrow I'll be doing a little tinkering and look for all the numbers. The advice on storing it with the steering levers pulled back is smart, never would have thought of that and should keep the clutches from seizing. Keep the advice coming guys!

cordlesscarpeter
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by cordlesscarpeter » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:31 pm

Oh, and yes, it does have the Hi-Lo-Reverser (awesome feature I might add, my other dozer doesn't have that and is annoying clutch shifting back and forth all day) and it's so much smoother than one might expect.

Jason37756
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by Jason37756 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:52 pm

Where is the reverser located? On the dash or next to your left arm rest area?

cordlesscarpeter
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by cordlesscarpeter » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:15 am

Jason37756 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:52 pm
Where is the reverser located? On the dash or next to your left arm rest area?
Neither, I am referring to the control stick right between your legs which has L, H, N, R with what I call a flip down "neutral assurance cover"

Jim B
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by Jim B » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:47 am

According to parts catalogs and manuals: Floor mounted shift controls make your machine serial number 142199 or before. 142199 is in the 1972 production run of 450Bs. 450B s/n 142200 changed to the console mounted control. 142294 was the end of the 1972 450Bs. So it is a straight 450 or an early 450B.

Did you get the all numbers from the injection pump? That might narrow field a bit more.

As Bruce noted get with Lavoy and register for the picture server. You can upload and store your photos there, then copy them into your posts.

Also add your current general location to your profile, who knows someone on here might be near by you. You can update it when you move to NW Montana.

cordlesscarpeter
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Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by cordlesscarpeter » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:24 am

Right now I have her covered under a tarp as I don't have a barn yet. I'm actually building a small one right now but it's still in the beginning stages. With it only being tarped right now, and off and on showers daily, I haven't been able to do much outside of sneak in under the tarp and turn a wrench or two in the cab, tinker around. I'll see if I can't find the injector numbers today... that should be doable between thunderstorms. Until I figure out how to update my profile, I'll put my location at the bottom.

Pretty sure it is a straight 450, looked more closely at the sides of both the battery box and had box... the label stickers were still there (painted over who knows how many times) but it is says "JD 450" - no B or C. Assuming they are the original badge stickers, at least I know what model I have. I also noticed that some of the manuals for straight 450s are broken down into 2 different serial number groups, so at some point, I'll need to figure out which group to falls into.

I PM'd Lavoy about pics and as I look up, I see I have a PM (probably from Lavoy), if it is, I'll hopefully get some pics up soon!

Location: Canaan, Indiana (about 2 hours south of Indianapolis, near the KY border)

dtoots1
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:08 am

to get to your profile...when you click on the login box, it shows the profile access just click on that and fill in location.

cordlesscarpeter
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by cordlesscarpeter » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:07 am

Tinkered around yesterday before the thunderstorms rolled in. I was able to get the numbers off of the fuel injector pump but it is definitely not original. My guess is that they replaced it when the engine was rebuilt in 2012.

I will post pics as soon as Mr. Lavoy sets up the account and gives me the green light. I gave him all the info he needed yesterday so it should be soon.

I'm not entirely sure what all the numbers mean as they don't exactly line up with a corresponding descriptor but here are the numbers below, not sure if it will help since it appears to be much newer (and green btw)

FUEL INJECTOR PUMP INFO:
Roosa Master
DGBFC 431
25AJ
A118026T
788059

I've heard that the dry steering clutches in these older 450s seize up and need to be replaced due to moisture and such which is why the later 450b and 450c is more desirable... I was briefed that the clutches on my 450 were replaced not long ago and they seem to work fine but I have no comparison. How would I even know if a steering clutch went bad if the brake bands engage when I pull the steering levers back further? I assumed stowing the machine with steering levers pulled to the rear helps by keeping the clutches disengaged while it's not being used thus not letting them seize up? If one (or both) was seized up, is there a way to effectively "un-seize" them with having to pull the machine apart and replace them?

Thanks again for all you guy's help! Oh, and after I stretched her legs yesterday, I stowed her with the steering levers to the rear. There are convenient hoops welded to the tank that make bungie cording them back very easy, do all the 450s have these hooks?

Jim B
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by Jim B » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:31 am

I think you may have gotten an extra 1 in the part number. It should be AT18026 by the parts catalog. They don't use most of the suffix letters any more. The Roosamaster numbers for that number don't match but they do match the substitute pump AR70144. Those pumps were on 450s up to serial number 35199 which fell in the 1966 production year. So your machine may be a 1965-1966 if the pump is original, and it may be. I suppose the AT118026 could have been stamped on a replacement pump to ID it, but the DGBFC431-25AJ is correct for the replacement pump for that serial number range. No guarantee, but might be right.

Jason37756
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Re: HELP with ID and advice - 450 Crawler Loader?

Post by Jason37756 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:54 pm

If a steering clutch is seized it will work against the brake and severely bog down the motor when the brake is engaged. It does this because the clutch and brake are both engaged at the same time.

The clutch actually puts power to the track and if it is rusted it cannot be disengaged with the stick. The brake it actually what steers the dozer. If adjusted and functioning correctly one can begin to climb a slight incline pull back slightly on both sticks and the dozer will roll backwards...pull further back and both brakes engage and stop the dozer.

If a clutch is seized you can work it and try pushing a tree stump or other heavy object while engaging and disengaging the clutch. You can easily see if the track is moving when it should be disengaged. If you disengage the clutch without engaging the brake and the track doesn't stop then you may have an adjustment issue or a seized clutch pack. You could also sink the blade deep into the ground...the key is to spin the track so you can see if the clutches will disengage.

I have never stored my 350 with the sticks pulled back, but can see the logic.

Jason

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