Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

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Thinblueline
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Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by Thinblueline » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:04 pm

Good day all. I bought a 450C last year. Been working on getting it into working condition. Currently I am replacing the cylinder liners due to pitting. Everything has been going well until today. I found the liner protrusion to be within specs. I put the orings in the block and the packing ring against the shoulder of the liner. After getting pistons and rods into place I put the head gasket on. I noticed that the liners stuck up a bit but the manual said that they would because of the uncompressed packing. While torquing down the head I heard a crack. Took the head back off and found a crack between each cylinder and a crack at one end between the cylinder and a head bolt hole. I also see that some of the packing from around the shoulder of the liners has been squeezed out. Has anyone experienced this before? Any ideas on why it happened? Does it appears I did something wrong? Any ideas on whether these cracks can be repaired?
Thanks in advance, Daryl

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jsal
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by jsal » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:23 am

recently did liners on a 350 had small cracks between cylinders also and put back together head gasket should seal water out have not had any problems


JIM

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gregjo1948
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by gregjo1948 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:10 am

Did you follow the correct torque sequence? Seams like coolant would follow the cracks down to the oil pan. The crack to the bolt hole will allow coolant to the bolt hole and try to get up into the top of the head and then to the oil pan. Maybe if some sealant is applied to the head bolt, it would seal it but, the torque on the bolt would be guess work. I think I'd be looking for a good block. I'm assuming you have all the gaskets, seals, rings, bearings, and etc. to rebuild already.
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B Town
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by B Town » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:51 am

Good morning Daryl,

How much time elapsed from the time you placed the liners to placing the head on and torquing???

Bruce

Thinblueline
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by Thinblueline » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:43 am

Thanks to all for responding. I installed the liners and pistons about 10 days before I put the head on and started torquing. I used dawn to lube the orings and put the shoulder packing on dry. The shoulder packing appeared to be about an 1/8 inch wide which I thought was quite wide. I did not measure it and I assumed the correct part would be included in the package. This packing was a black rubber with square edges, as opposed to the orings which are rounded. I am now wondering if the shoulder packing was the wrong size. Does anyone know what the dimensions of this part should be?

Thinblueline
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by Thinblueline » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:45 am

I did follow the correct torque sequence. Started first with 30 lbs, then went to 60, and bad things happened when I got to 95.

B Town
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by B Town » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:44 pm

Immediately after you installed the sleeves, did you use large washers and bolts threaded into the block to hold the sleeves down into the block? The orings will swell and lift the sleeves, if left unsecured. You would think torquing the head down would be enough to push these back down, but all that does is cause problems. The extra rubber material you described is definitely part of the problem. If the sleeves were secured, you should be suspicious of the wrong orings, but if the sleeves weren’t secured I am suspicious of oring swelling causing the sleeves to lift and cause excessive protrusion. Best regards Bruce

Thinblueline
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by Thinblueline » Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:59 pm

Thanks for the reply Bruce. I did have all liners held down with large washers. I put these on as I was putting in the liners. I took off the washers about 2 minutes before I put the head on and began torquing. I think the shoulder packing being too thick was my problem. I might have to order one from John Deere just to see what the right one looks like.

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Jason37756
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by Jason37756 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:28 pm

Any idea if that block was used on a tractor? Maybe a 2010... Could get a better price by salvaging an engine off a tractor.

Jason

B Town
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by B Town » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:46 pm

Engine is a 300 series Deere. I believe it is a 4219. Lots of other apps. But they are getting older and more difficult to find.

Thinblueline
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by Thinblueline » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:12 pm

I want to thank all who responded. I will put this thread to rest by telling you the mistake I made and maybe it will help someone from making the same mistake. This was my first diesel engine rebuild and I have never worked with cylinder liners (sleeves). I did everything correctly except I placed the shoulder packing too far up on the sleeve. I put it up against the top. I have done some further research and have learned that the shoulder packing should be installed on the ridge of the sleeve just above where the orings in the block would be. When I torqued down the head the shoulder packing being in the wrong place had no where to go thus cracking the block. Expensive mistake. Still looking for a replacement b!com if anyone has any leads.
Daryl

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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by jbloam » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:13 am

No leads but B Town is correct. If it is a 4219 engine Deere did use them in other equipment. I beleive the 2010 tractor and I have a early 80's 410 backhoe with that engine. I rebuilt the engine last year.

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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by Jim B » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:07 am

2010's used 144 or 165 cu. in. engines, from what I find. The 410 did use the 4219. The 2030 ag tractors and some others in that range used the 4219. The 450B looks like it was the start of the 4219 in the 450's. I believe the D's were the 4219 and the E's went to the 4276. There appear to be many used or rebuilt/remanufactured options for the 4219. A 4276 non-turbo may bolt in, under hood clearance might be an issue with a turbo. Just some thoughts to add to your review, all may not be correct or complete as to what model used the engine. Check with Lavoy he might have a lead or two, and web searches will give you options.

Jim

Thinblueline
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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by Thinblueline » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:47 am

I bought a 4239t last night. Came out of an Elgin street sweeper. Wasn't able to hear it run. Seller said he thinks it has about 2900 hours on it. Seller also claimed he started it up once and it fired right up and seemed to run good. Came with the radiator. Hoping all goes well. I paid $1000.

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Re: Replacing cylinder liners cracked block

Post by B Town » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:23 pm

Very good deal, best regards. Bruce

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