Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post support questions about your JD350 and newer crawler here
Post Reply
neilh
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:19 pm
Location: Gilmore, OH

Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post by neilh » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:29 pm

There is a diesel leak around the injector nozzle on cylinder #1 on my 1965 350 crawler.

I first checked the tubing fittings from the injector pump, then checked the rubber T fitting for the return line. But neither of those spots appeared to be the source of the leak.

The leak appeared to be around the base of the injector itself.

I pulled the injector and found two seals. One is a discolored plastic ring outside of the engine block(assuming purpose is dirt), and the other appears to be a tight teflon seal near the injector tip(assume this is the one that is supposed to stop leaks).

The trouble is that this injector doesn't exactly match the diagram from either the jdparts website or the old sm-2045 manual.

The pump was a Roosa Master JDB, and consequently I presume that the nozzle should be of the variety of the 9.5mm Roosa Master injection nozzle from the sm-2045 manual. But there does not appear to be any way to remove the teflon ring near the end of the nozzle.

A replacement injector is ~$120, and if indeed these seals can be replaced, the total will be < $5. So I would definitely prefer the latter scenario. The jd-350 only has about 2000 hours, and the engine runs very smoothly. So I presume that the injector nozzle is otherwise okay.

But based on a bit of reading in this forum, I can't tell whether this nozzle can be repaired or whether it is a throw-away design.

Jim B
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post by Jim B » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:30 pm

Is it diesel fuel or oil? Is it possible the rocker cover is leaking and there is oil around the injector?

Was the injector loose in the head or did it take some effort to pull it?

I'm thinking the 350s all used pencil injectors and $120.00 per injector sounds high. Send Lavoy an email at postmaster@jdcrawlers.com. His business provides this site and I believe he can help you out with the right parts.

neilh
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:19 pm
Location: Gilmore, OH

Re: Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post by neilh » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:47 am

The fluid is definitely diesel. The off-road dye make the diesel easy to distinguish.

I don't have any prior experience with pulling injectors. But I did have to use a puller with a sliding weight, and the nozzle only came out in baby-steps. My experience resembles what I have seen in other youtube videos. So I presume that effort was typical.

Here is the injector nozzle assembly. I cannot see how to remove/replace the white ring near the tip.

Image

Jim B
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post by Jim B » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:25 am

That is what I would call a pencil injector and it would be a replace not repair to me. Carefully check the lines in the area. The fact you can tell it is red diesel still makes me suspicious of a leak/crack in a line or the rubber boot. Be careful about reaching hands and fingers around lines of a running engine. Fuel spraying under pressure from a line or injector can be injected under the skin and in a worst case be fatal. As I noted earlier check with Lavoy on injectors.

neilh
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:19 pm
Location: Gilmore, OH

Re: Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post by neilh » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:18 pm

I followed your cautions about errant diesel spray, replaced the injector, and carefully monitored the situation from a distance with safety glasses, and some clear plastic shields.

After removing the muffler, it is pretty easy to see everything that is happening.

I can see the frothing diesel fuel coming out around the base of the injector as it enters the engine block.

No fuel is coming out of the top of the injector at idle. The return line is dry.

So I guess replacing the injector is the only approach now. Thanks for your information.

neilh
MC crawler
MC crawler
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:19 pm
Location: Gilmore, OH

Conclusion

Post by neilh » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:53 am

I'm following up to bring closure to this topic. This forum has helped me greatly, and I would like to pay-forward by adding useful information for the next guy that might run across this particular problem and be similarly clueless.


SUMMARY

Replacing the pencil injector solved the problem with diesel fuel leaking out at the spot where the injector enters the engine block.


DETAILS

I needed to get a compatible injector. And it would also be nice if the injector were calibrated appropriately for my purpose.

Lavoy said that he wasn't probably wouldn't be able save me any money on an injector and suggested I go to a diesel shop and see if I have one.

I have some grudges against the local diesel shop. I'd rather see if I could figure out how to replace the injector myself.

Looking at the neck of the original injector, I could see the part number 18717cl. According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKwYEV4KvlM, the 'cl' on the end is a date code, and only the leading numbers are an actual part number.

Using John Deere SM-2045, there was a table on 30-26-3 which cross-references the Roosa/Stanadyne injector part numbers with the John Deere part numbers. In this case the Roosa Master's 18717 corresponds to John Deere's AR49876 and AR49877.

Since timing wasn't critical, I found a compatible injector on Amazon for $24 with free shipping from California. For comparison, John Deere said AR49877 was obsolete and wanted $116 for AR89564($5 off for old injector). There was a lower price A-AR89564 for $50.92, and a "remanufactured" one for $82.73. Wow that's a lot of range in price.

Given that my $24 injector was also acting as a tool for diagnosing the leak, I wasn't concerned about being too cheap.

However now that it's running(quite well), I don't know what level of cheap is too cheap for an injector. This might come back to bite me some time later, but hopefully by then, I will have found some practical information about the trade-off between quality and price for pencil injectors.

Jim B
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post by Jim B » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:16 am

Glad to hear you solved the problem. That injector may go for a long time. If you don't know this, the Alternate Parts John Deere has A-part number are often A&I parts. John Deere owns A&I, so they should be correct parts. The parts manager at the Ag dealer I use will usually tell me if an alternate is available for our ag equipment, he will also say if he has seen a reason not to use the alternate. They don't stock the alternate parts but don't object to getting them in for their customers, usually takes a couple days longer than their JD stock orders.

User avatar
Lavoy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 9741
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: North Dakota
Contact:

Re: Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post by Lavoy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:30 am

FYI, in the case of the alternate part numbers, I am an A&I dealer, and get parts from them overnight with no additional charge. Plus, I can usually beat the dealers price as well.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

Jim B
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
Location: western Maine

Re: Leak around base of injector nozzle on 350 crawler

Post by Jim B » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:24 am

Thanks Lavoy,

That is good to know.

Jim

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests