JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

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Jim B
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Jim B » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:26 pm

They don't always come off easy, but you need to pop them off to make the adjustments. As for putting them back on I don't think they are needed so left them off, just make sure the locknuts are set. There are a number of posts about them on the crawler boards. I think some have put them back on, more have likely left them off. Others posted they have found the clips off and laying in the housing during later teardowns.

oldmetalmender
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:23 pm

I found out how to remove them with little effort. And better reading glasses. I fought them for a long time assuming the slot that goes around the bolt was just that. A slot. It is not and is more of a key hole shape to lock onto the bolt shoulder. I see that the clips pull the pressure plate metal disc up off the clutch fiber disc when the fingers are depressed. I am sure it probably makes no difference, but I would like to put them back when I am done adjusting.
Here is how to remove them easily. I used a long pair of bent nose needle nose pliers. Reaching in I got a grip on the clip side and pushed directly down towards the jam nut. This unhooked the clip from the bolt shoulder. I did the same thing on the opposite side and presto, it came off and did not even shoot across the shop.

Grip the clip here on each side and push down and pull towards you to get the clip off the bolt shoulder.

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An upside down view showing why they don't just slide off the bolt. I could not see that even with a flashlight.
These are definitely spring steel.

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I appreciate the help. With the costs of these parts compared to a truck pressure plate, I did not want to mess it up.
And it seems my vision is heading south. My dad passed two years ago and was just about blind with Macular degeneration.
I am wondering how long I might have. I need good vision to be so darned A*** retentive. :mrgreen:

Hope the pictures help someone else. Again thank you. This board is super.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

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shinnery
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by shinnery » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:00 am

Back in 2014 Lavoy said "Throw them in the garbage, then you have plenty of clearance." about the clips on the pressure plate.
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:59 pm

The clutch is all adjusted and reassembles back to my settings. Well my block is hanging on a chain ready to go in. The yellow paint was still a tiny bit tacky today or it would be in. I also did some measuring on my cylinder head today and found it is out of spec on the exhaust valves. I thought it was OK and it is not. I'm taking it in Tuesday for some corrective work. Plus I am .005 thou from being to thin on the overall thickness. I just had it surfaced before the last head gasket and checking it shows it is very flat. I am on the ragged edge of needing a replacement. I think it can be saved. I just missed a loaded cylinder head on facebook market place for a 100 bucks. I tried to sign up and got blocked from market place. Found that is standard procedure for FB and it can take 3 months to be cleared. I deleted my account and now can see marketplace again. I just can't respond. The 100 dollar cylinder head is long gone.
I have no use ever for FB.
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1975 JD 450C crawler

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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:01 pm

I took the cylinder head in today for some corrective work. I suspect the guides are out also. Then headed to another town for a gigantic hydraulic nipple for the supply side of the new pump. Long day driving.
So with the clutch pressure plate staying consistent with each re-install, I put a dab of blue loc-tite on the jam nuts just for kicks.
I used the rear seal installer I made what seems like months ago and it worked well. I had nothing to tell me when to stop. So I had to guestimate.

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I measured the recess with a caliper and it was pretty even. I guess I will know if it is not done right by the puddle later. I'm hoping not. :)

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Ready to go. I recut the alignment tool. It was to loose for my liking. That was recycled from an old military deuce I used to have.
Nice to re-purpose something for once.

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I have been looking forward to this.

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I ended up fighting it for hours.. And hours.... I almost gave up and right when I was getting fed up, I got past the cast cross member that is way to close to the bellhousing for a straight shot in. Forget the alignment pins. I had to get rid of them and wiggle it onto the input shaft. Somehow I got the lowest part of the rear engine adapter past the top of the crossmember and it went quick after that.
Not one of the easier engine plants I have done. I found pushing the gantry crane back hard and chocking the wheels gave me the rearward influence I needed. It is hard to push on the engine, turn the crank, and try to keep it even with one person. Pushing the crane back helped.

This crossmember. The top of that crossmember is close to a 1/2 inch above the bottom of the bellhousing. Nuts...I tried jacking the frame rails up, the works. I could not eliminate the interference fit.

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Ok it went in. I pushed the clutch pedal in to relieve any stress and torqued the bolts to spec. Finally it is in.

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I will keep attaching parts and cleaning up what is left. I wish I could do the entire crawler. I don't like partial paint jobs.
But I want to use it not stare at it. :mrgreen:

I hope to have the cylinder head back by Friday.
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1975 JD 450C crawler

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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:05 pm

I am stuck on something. I apparently did not take a good enough picture and the manuals are not helping. I need to ask you guys.
The block that the turbo oil feed lines go through, and has the oil pressure sending unit screwed into it, where does it bolt to exactly?? This one. If someone could take a look at their 450 and tell me it would be great.

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So I am now trying to get the machine assembled and running asap. We are getting a very early spring and I was hoping to push snow for the engine break in. It's melting early this year.
So my cylinder head needed a complete valve job with new guides cut in. I figured as much and it is good to do.
I masked it off and turned on the heaters.

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I got most everything installed except for the fuel filter and injectors, oil lines and wiring for the engine. I have a small issue with the turbo not fitting and that is getting corrected. Other than that it is pretty close. When I put the new pump on, I put a shop vac on the tank fill. I had hardly any oil spill when changing the pump suction side. There is nothing from keeping the tank from draining out if something slipped.

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Still need some clamps and a shorter belt.

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I can't make sense of the engine rotating tools in the parts catalogs. I get one of them but the rest don't say what they drive. Flywheel or crank snout. I ordered a cheap 7/8 13 spline shaft, cut it off and welded a big nut and it works great. About 20 bucks.
I was able to get the valves adjusted and close up the engine. I have flanged head bolts with the deep recessed block holes so no re-torquing is needed.

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So getting there.. I am going to switch over to the tool trays. I need to catch up on them. Everything is looking good.

Al
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NWJD fan
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by NWJD fan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:31 pm

Pmed you regarding oil press sender adapter. It will probably be self evident when cylinder head is reinstalled but I can send a photo if needed

oldmetalmender
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:58 am

I sent an email to you. I appreciate it!!
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1975 JD 450C crawler

Labparamour
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Labparamour » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:50 am

re: turbo oil line, oil pressure sending unit fitting.
My 450B has it mounted on the forward bolt on the fuel filter mount.

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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:32 pm

Labparamour wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:50 am
re: turbo oil line, oil pressure sending unit fitting.
My 450B has it mounted on the forward bolt on the fuel filter mount.
Thank you for posting. This is why lots of pictures are important. And when done with pictures, a long slow look for the memory.
If it's currently working. :mrgreen:

Thank you!!
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:18 am

Well thanks for all the responses on where the oil pressure sending unit block adapter went. It's on and ready to go. I got a couple days back on the install. The fuel system is all done. The turbo was in fact the correct one. Turns out they ship it with the center housing and the intake housing clocked in the optimum position for shipping. You mount the turbo down, loosen the center housing bolts just enough to clock the housing to hook up correctly, tighten the bolts, then loosen the air in side of the housing and clock that and tighten. It was a great fit and I can tell by the fit and finish it is a very good unit. I pre-oiled it before attaching the oil feed line. Glad that all got figured out. Thanks again Lavoy for the help.
So I only have a few things left. A clamp on the turbo inlet, install and land each terminal on the brand new wiring harness I made, and some cooling and oil lines. I also need to clean and paint the shroud, weld a crack on the radiator lower mount, and unclog the packed oil cooler. So close...

I had no air restriction indicator. Someone cut the line and stuck a bolt in it. The ether injection system was not functional. Now it is and I probably will never need it. No clamps on any hard lines and now there is.

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My 450 has a pusher fan on it. It too was mounted backwards with the curved blade scooping the wrong way. I fixed that too.

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The zinc parts of the ether system were pretty ugly. It would not polish up so on with the glacier black high temp cerakote.
New chain, gasket and all. :)

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All bare metal lines are coated with clear ceramic coating. They will never corrode.

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This is all that is left. Disassembly, a quick TIG weld, straighten a few fins, degreasing and some black and yellow paint.

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I may not have much snow to push for break in. It's melting very fast and I don't mind. I can dead drag my Jeep if I have to.
Another day on all this tomorrow and then I will shift back on the tool trays. It is going to be a very busy summer.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by gaspumpsam » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:28 am

A suggestion - if you haven’t pre- lubed engine( forced oil into oil gallery with external pump and oil container, ) maybe roll engine in short bursts - 10 to 15 seconds ea, to get oil into complete internal parts of engine before engine starts, watch engine oil pressure gauge , it should start to rise after about 6 bursts of starter, you could also have fuel lines at injectors loose at same time, doing both jobs at one time. A real shame to get fuel on your paint job, maybe some rags/ towels under fuel lines?
Getting oil pressure before it starts, helps life of your engine. You have done such a beautiful job already !!

oldmetalmender
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:03 am

That has sure been on my mind. It's not like I can pull a distributor and run a primer tool on a drill there. I assembled the entire engine using melling engine assembly lube. And oil on the cylinder walls. I put as much lube in the oil pump as I could before clamshelling the pump body together. I am assuming there will be some cranking before it fires. This will help make pressure. The turbo was prelubed with melling and oil till it would accept no more. I was going to wrap the injectors with a oil absorb mat material I have here. This spray paint is pretty weak compared to the original JD paint. It chips easily and stripper removes it very quick. Some of the original JD paint laughs at the stripper. I have had to bead blast some of it off. Crazy stout paint. Thanks for the info gaspumpsam. It's good to have more than one set of eyes on this. This repair has been beyond expensive. I would be pretty upset if something went wrong. Especially if I caused it. I have been slow and careful through the whole thing. The payoff will be good though. It's going to run like a champ. :mrgreen:
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Lavoy » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:45 pm

As prelubed as you are, make sure the throttle is at idle and spin it over. You don't have any fuel in the injector lines, and can't bleed them without spinning it over, it will be pushing oil around long before it starts.
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DrLoch
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by DrLoch » Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:21 am

FWIW. Another means of pre lubing the engine like this is much the same as some of the newer automotive engines where you can't spin an oil pump shaft. I made a 5 gal bucket that has an SB chevy oil pump mounted to the lid. The oil pump pick-up is extended to within 1/2 inch of the bottom when the lid is on. The outlet of the bucket oil pump is tapped for a 3/8/ SAE -6 fitting/hose. The outlet of the pump is plumbed to an external oil filter mounted on the lid then I have a line/hose running from the remote oil filter that I gets connected that to a oil galley on the engine, in your case a good place would be to tee it into that block that the oil pressure switch and turbo oil line are connected to.

I run the pump until I pump all the oil out of the bucket then drain it out of the oil pan and repeat if needed. If it is the same oil you are going to running in the engine just leave it in the engine oil pan.

Just a though if your concerned about a dry start.
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