JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

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oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:40 pm

Here is the double bend oil pump tube that delivers oil to the block. It seems all the replacement pumps need this now. I had a hard time finding the part number as most websites said use double bend tube with no part number and no link to it. It has a crimp on both ends to reduce the diameter that leaves it with a lot of flats. Hope it seals in the O-rings well.


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I am currently waiting for the injection pump to return before sealing up the engine. I have had time to clean and paint a lot of parts which I needed to get done. I have a few more things to make yellow or black.

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I should probably stop cleaning things. I keep finding stuff wrong. The air filter housing was full of dirt and rust and the inner filter had a date on it from 1996!! I suppose I should change it. :mrgreen: After media blasting the rust scale I opened up a couple small rust holes. I had some left over urethane seam sealer from my last project that came in handy. I will get some paint on it.

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The outside had at least 4 coats of paint on it. Painted right over grease. I don't get that. Good old paint stripper.

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I decided to completely replace the front wire harness. It was in bad shape. I have new woven sheathing coming and will use all tinned marine wire. I already have the packard 56 terminals. More yellow spray paint with nothing masked.

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How do you trouble shoot electrical when everything is yellow. 2 hours of masking would have gone a long ways here.
I am looking for the top 6 terminal flat connector shell that goes up on the top row there. I have it but it is fractured. I have looked online and ordered what is supposed to be correct and it arrives and is wrong. I have looked extensively and this terminal shell is not to be found. If anyone has one that is not broken I would buy it. It is the white one in the picture above next to the voltage regulator. It looks fine but it is broken in two places.

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So noticed a mouse nest in behind the gauges while looking at the wiring. I took the gauge panel off and found wiring that had been chewed on. Plus mouse pee had corroded the headlight and start button. I have replacements coming. Unfortunately I had two broken gauges with the case broken from the bezel. I can't find quality JD replacements. Well I found a new oil pressure gauge that was a stunning 512.00 dollars. Sorry not doing that. After looking at speedhut and finding they carry nothing that is waterproof, I looked at Isspro and Stewart Warner. I prefer Isspro as they have made custom gauges for me before and the quality is there. But I found a line of SW gauges that is waterproof and dust proof. The Heavy Duty Plus series. Going with electrical senders and deciding to keep my old tach, I think they will look OK. I am bummed about not finding original and correct gauges.
Here are the Stewart Warner Heavy Duty Plus gauges. Scroll down to see them.

https://www.stewartwarner.com/products/heavy-duty-plus/

Here is more information on SW gauges. Several styles here and better detail on the gauges. The cover has HD plus gauges.

http://engenint.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... g-2013.pdf

Chewed wires and pee damage in the lower right corner. It took a while to take all this apart as it was severely corroded. I want good accurate instrumentation on this new engine.

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The front side before taking the gauges out. I will media blast it and paint it with cerakote glacier black and clean up the tach and paint the bezel.

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I have stopped caring on when I get this done. I will just keep on it and soon enough it will be running.
It needs an idler and some hoses. Maybe later next spring.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

gaspumpsam
440 crawler
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Location: Quesnel, BC, Canada

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by gaspumpsam » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:52 am

Excellent job- both on restoration and pic’s , :D :D

B Town
2010 crawler
2010 crawler
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Location: Western Iowa

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by B Town » Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:05 am

I have used a couple different vendors, that advertise in the “Green Magazine” that recondition and restore the original gauges. The tachometer no longer bounces. Nice and smooth at all engine speeds. The face was re-screened and looks original.

Best regards.
Bruce

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:54 am

I am going to go have a look at the gauge restoration. Thanks for that. I was delaying purchasing the SW gauges to make sure that was the best option. I wonder what they could do with broken cases. Two of mine are severely cracked right behind the crimp on the bezel. In the picture above you can see the engine temp gauge is pretty well hammered. It had been broken for a very long time and was letting the elements in. The SW heavy duty plus gauges with senders was around 275.00 for all four and sending units. I hope the restoration would not be astronomical. I'll google it and see. Thanks again.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:14 am

I found and called Evergreen restoration. They do not do 350 or 450 gauges. He suggested looking at combine salvage yards and to look for JD 6620, 7720, 8820 gauges as they were the same being yellow, green and red and were also electrical sending units. Combine gauges were in a cab and only subject to dust and dirt verses UV rays in an open unit like a crawler.
I will put some time into looking and if I don't find anything, I will get the HD plus gauges.

EDIT: Here is a link to gauges on a 6620 combine for sale. Similar but no trans temp. Click on the gauge picture to see.

https://www.machinerypete.com/details/c ... 0/19652005
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:37 pm

I have two questions. 1975 JD450C 6 way blade.
If I remove hoses to replace them from the hydraulic control valves just forward of the hydraulic tank, especially the main pressure line from the pump, will it drain the tank? Should I drain the oil before doing some hose replacements?

OK three questions.

I can't seem to find the air cleaner decal new. It is a T27580 There might be more than one decal, but this one is the only example I have. This decal came on a spare air cleaner housing I bought that was to small. Probably a normally aspirated motor. Mine is bigger probably for the turbo.
Can someone that has this decal please tell me what it says in the upper left that is torn away? The top two lines. I know of a company that can reproduce it and they do excellent work. I just don't know what it is supposed to say.

Thank you in advance.

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1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

Jim B
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Jim B » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:21 pm

I think the decal you have said "Service Dust Cup each 10 Hours More frequently under severe dust conditions". As a side note; according to what I see in the 450C decal kit, T27580 is superseded to T146605 which is available for about $18.50.

On any machine I would expect to get just the oil in the blade function hoses if a blade/bucket is on the ground, pressure relieved (cycle control lever with engine off). and handle in neutral/hold position; when replacing blade/loader function hoses.

As for the hose from the pump there may be some leakage from the pump end depending on how tight the pump is. You should be able to engage a function and secure the control lever in a position (other than float) to block oil coming out of the valve, since return to tank in the valve is blocked from the pressure side when you are using a function. My thoughts.

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:25 pm

I could not think of what word ended with an E on the decal. Service.... Ha, it eluded me. Thanks for that. So the decal still seems difficult to find. Polen Implement has one listed for 13 and change, but says call for info. So they probably make to order. The other site that lists it, and this is probably my next half million dollar question, AVS spares always comes up on searches. Never anything you can purchase. More of a submit a quote site. I always avoid them and others that want a quote request. They list a lot of stuff that I can't find elsewhere. Has anybody here ever used AVS spares successfully? Just wondering if it is a site that wastes time while looking.
And I appreciate the hydraulic oil feedback. My main pressure line from the pump has a bad scuff with frayed stainless braid right at the bellhousing. I'd have a couple 5 gallon buckets handy just in case.
BTW, And I am replacing the old pump from nearly wiped worn splines. I received a 23 GPM pump last night and am returning it for the correct 19 GPM after reading the thread on pumps here. My blade moved plenty fast before and a 23 GPM pump would probably be undesirable.

I'll call Polen and also be ready to have one made. Thanks Jim.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:16 pm

Called Polen and being the only one online that shows it (other than AVSspare) and they don't have it. Looking it up he said this looks like an industrial part and John Deere won't sell it to them. They are agricultural. This yellow and green thing is strange.

I will call the local JD dealership. Then have it made if NLA.
Would their be any other decals on the air cleaner? I have seen salvage yard pictures of crawlers that looked like there was more there. Any input would be appreciated.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:55 am

The JD dealer shows no inventory on the service air filter and start and stop procedure decals. Meaning no longer available. NLA.
They did give me some phone numbers of some private business that showed them in stock.

And the gauge panel is getting put back together. I will add that Isspro makes the best gauges I have ever used so far. But I liked the faces of the Stewart Warners better. However comma SW is still winning my heart by still crimping the gauges with the faces off by just a degree or two making the face crooked when the gauge is inserted in the gauge hole and the alignment notch. I can make the notch a shade wider or go through the hassle of a return and possible getting more gauges with the same problem. This is not the first time I have had this happen with Stewart Warner gauges. I have never had one problem with Isspro. My bad there...

Fresh clean stuff always looks good though.

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And more yellow parts. Including my floor. :mrgreen: 13 degrees last night. It is hard to get the shop to 70+ to paint and I was able to get all this done before the cold hit two days ago.

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I am starting the new wiring harness today.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:06 pm

Well we lost power again. Third time in 24 hours. The 7th time so far this winter. Yesterday I set up LED lights, put on a headlamp and ran my soldering iron off a small 1980's old suitcase 650 Watt Honda generator. I was wondering what I would ever use that thing for. It was perfect to solder with. I finished the wire harness from the bulkhead connector to the instrument panel.
I am working on the forward engine harness now. I'll post some pictures and where I sourced everything as soon as it is done.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Idaho Panhandle

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:56 pm

I have a question on the throttle bellcrank behind the dash panel that connects to the push pull cable. I found the pivoting link on the throttle handle was frozen with rust on one side. I took it all apart for bead blasting and cleanup and found what looks to be a missing pin. There is a weld behind it but just a .250 hole on the front side. Looks like there is supposed to be a pin in the slot here? The manuals don't show that detail.

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The friction washers on each side of the bellcrank look a lot like a cut off wheel. The part number for them is R39985 and they are NLA. Subbed to a R105812 which is easily found.

The wire harness is completely replaced. I used tinned marine wire, soldered every connector, and sourced extra heavy ring connectors that are twice as thick as normal connectors. They were from crimp supply. I also found the right woven flex harness. This stuff was made to be cut with scissors while regular woven harness material requires a hot knife. I don't have a hot knife. I am going to finish the engine harness after the engine is in place. There were several wires that were to long and doubled back. I will cut them to a better length and insert the wires in the woven covers and finish it as a last step. I have built the harness to original correct condition and color with the voltage regulator wires restored back in and landed in the correct positions in the terminal shells. In case a correct alternator ever finds it's way back in the crawler. I will adapt the one wire CS130 GM alternator after it goes in. Easy to do later.

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Finally I have found a place to get the flat 6 packard 56 terminal shell for the rear harness to the light, trans temp sender, neutral safety switch, and hour meter.
GTengine parts has it. It was only a 1.52 and I ordered two. They charge a 15 dollar handling fee on top of 14 dollars for shipping. Not a bargain but having the correct part is what matters. I have been looking for this terminal shell for quite a while. No automotive sources have it despite being a standard packard 56 part.

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The instrument panel is looking good. Unfortunately my tach is in pretty bad shape. I saw a couple pieces of dirt sticking to the face inside the glass. I loosened the screws that hold the tach assembly to the gauge body so I could try a jet of compressed air to clean the face of the gauge. Doing so knocked a huge amount of corrosion loose and all of it promptly migrated to the gauge face and stuck there by static cling. It looks terrible when before it was passable. I have decided to try cutting the metal gauge body open on a lathe to clean the inside and paint the inner bezel. It was rusty in one spot. I will hope to save it and either TIG weld it back or use auto body panel adhesive to close it back up. If that does not go well, I will get a new aftermarket tach. Bummer on the excess dirt and rust inside.
I decided to put a green indicator light in the upper 5/8 hole above the tach. I have left my battery switch on a few times and I will wire it to energize when the battery switch is on. A reminder for the forgetful.

Getting there.

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1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

B Town
2010 crawler
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Location: Western Iowa

Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by B Town » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:35 am

Super high quality restoration work. Keep making progress and posting pictures. Can’t wait to see the project finale. Best regards, Bruce

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Lavoy
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by Lavoy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:47 am

I should have your pump and turbo late today, or tomorrow.
Lavoy
Parts and restoration for antique and late model John Deere crawlers.
Owner and moderator www.jdcrawlers.com

oldmetalmender
440 crawler
440 crawler
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Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:06 pm
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Re: JD450C third head gasket This is getting old

Post by oldmetalmender » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:24 am

Thanks Bruce. I should be getting your vandalism cover any day now. I am looking forward to some metal work. And Lavoy that is good news.
I have a long day of errands today. I should return by 6PM my time. Or tomorrow should work and I can get you paid up. Thanks again for helping me with the injection pump rebuild and turbo. I can see the end of this project coming.
1969 JD 400 backhoe
1975 JD 450C crawler

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