450c 6-way fittings?

[jjgurley]

A closer look at the drawing shows you're correct. I confused #16 and #17.

[jjgurley]

I finally dug into my 6-way valve to see if the bypass might be dumping all my pressure, and I found it had three shims but no washer. Anyone have any idea how thick the washer should be? When I unscrewed the cap, and I removed the spring and guide, the ball was in a side passage, not over the valve seat. That could have been the problem, although I was able to duplicate the mis-locate by having just enough fluid on the guide to pick the ball up and drop it into the side chamber as it came out. Grrr!

Does anyone know what effect a shim or missing washer might have? Just a few dozen pounds or huge?

I'll call the dealer tomorrow and see if he can do a bench test, or maybe reveal the washer thickness. If this doesn't fix it, I guess its a pump replacement.

As I stated earlier in the thread, I was suspicious of the bypass (instead of the pump) since the failure seemed sudden on either side of some major repairs (clutches, brakes, spurs). The mechanic literally can't read or write, and he completely fouled up the float mechanism, and said he did have the bypass fall apart while re-installing the valve.

[gaspumpsam]

You need to find out what the hyd pressure is supposed to be, and at what RPM. Then put a pressure gauge( approx 1000 psi more than what your spec is) and a good gauge, then bottom a function so pressure is max. Record this reading. If it’s low, put in
.050 washer or approx,but measure so you know how thick it is, then bottom same function, same rpm, and record the pressure. But do it very gently at first, in case pressure climbs to far. Subtract first reading from second reading. Then you know how much thickness of shims to add / remove to get proper pressure.
I.e. if your first reading was 1000 psi, then you added .050 washer, then your second reading was 2000 psi, you know .050 shim increases pressure 1000 psi. If spec is 2500 psi, you need to add another .025 shim to get very close to your spec of 2500 psi.
Hope this helps.

[jjgurley]

So no idea how thick the washer is? And a single shim could move the pressure by 500psi or more? I'm guessing my three shims are all on the order of .010, although it's cold and dark outside right now, so I won't be measuring them for awhile. The missing washer is likely causing a huge issue.

[Jim B]

Are you looking for washer part number T10649? I checked that number and U10562 shim but they show as no longer available on the ag dealer site that I can access some dimensions on. I check my construction dealer's site and they show as available to order, but that site doesn't give access to dimensions. So your dealer might be able to tell you the dimensions, but it is not a sure thing. Have you got a gauge on it to see what you have for pressure? I would try a regular washer that fits as a start point and check pressure.

[gaspumpsam]

The T10649 washer is available on eBay , the thin shim you have should be U10562 and is .010” thick.
Get a regular flat washer,( O.D. Of washer should be close to OD of thin shims), ( use a flat washer from your hood or floor plate) measure the thickness, install it, follow my previous post, or order the one on eBay and install it, then follow post.
Let us know how you make out.

[gaspumpsam]

Forgot to say- get a bunch of .010” and install them, if you would rather. Put 5 or so in and try it. All the washer does is make it so you don’t have a bunch of thin shims. I always install thickest shim next to spring, that way spring action over time won’t distort thick shim( it will distort thin shim).

[gaspumpsam]

I found a listing for your 450-c on line and believe your hyd pressure is 2250 psi.

[gaspumpsam]

Another suggestion - when you are testing hyd pressures over 300 psi, do not use brass or copper fittings, they won’t stand the elevated pressure and personal injury could result.

[jjgurley]

I have a custom hose with the SAE 3/8 boss male to liquid filled gauge already. I went ahead and ordered the washers from eBay - I couldn't talk the Pape guy to get the one place that had them in stock to measure them (and shipping was worse than the ebay deal). I'm optimistic that this will fix my issue, but I'll do an update.

[gaspumpsam]

Did you try and measure a regular flat washer ?

[jjgurley]

maybe there's a special tool that would allow adding shims in place, but i wanted to get very close on the first try so i dont have to leak fluid everywhere and try to open the bypass on the machine.

[gaspumpsam]

Welcome to trouble shooting/ adjusting hydraulics !!
Drip cans, soaker pads and wipe up rags are a must have part of ones tool box!!

[gaspumpsam]

When you get your new washer, would you measure thickness and post on here, in case someone else has similar problems, it would be for all to see! Also, after you install new washer and your 3 thin shims, and warm oil and pressure test, post on here what is pressure of your system, and if you have to add/remove shims ( and how much you had to add/ remove, if you have to)
to bring your hyd pressure to the desired 2250 psi.

How high will your new gauge go to?

If you would do that, it would help all of on this site, which is what we are all on here for.
I noticed on line that that washer and the .010 shims, are used in many different size of JD equipment, so your testing could potentially help a wide range of JD owners with hyd pressure problems.

Sometimes on older equipment, a hyd pressure check, the gauge needle may swing rapidly a few hundred pounds, try and see the half way point of lowest and highest swing, and use that as your pressure. ie- when you bottom a function and pressure comes to relief valve pressure, the gauge needle may swing from say 2050 psi to 2250 psi, half way would be 2150, use 2150 as pressure and adjust from there.

[gaspumpsam]

You will probably find a .010 shim will change hyd pressure 80 to 100 psi