450B problem

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timmtnman
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450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:25 pm

I just bought this 450 and been going over it really good. It had a leaking radiator when I got it, the guy told me that and the other things he knew was wrong with it, so I had it repaired at a radiator shop. Replaced all the hoses on the front end and a new thermostat as well. Today I started it up for the first time and let it run. Within a minute it started pushing antifreeze out of the overflow. I let it keep running then it would shoot it out in bursts. It never got hot or warm on the radiator side. Shut it off and took the the thermostat out and started it again and it did the same thing shooting it out the over flow. No water in the oil at all. Did yours do this at any point. I'm thinking maybe a bad water pump or it's the head gasket one. Also put a new cap on. What are your thoughts on this situation. Thanks

B Town
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Re: 450B problem

Post by B Town » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:26 pm

Sounds like the engine may be pressurizing the cooling system. Do you have access to a radiator pressure tester? How did the water pump feel (while the radiator was out)?

timmtnman
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Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:45 pm

I'd have to check on a tester. The water pump felt good, no noise and no play.

dtoots1
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Re: 450B problem

Post by dtoots1 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:01 pm

just ha my jd440ic do the same thing recently...had my donor water pump on it at first, so had Lavoy ship me a rebuilt, it did the same thing twice, actually ran temp gauge up to red line and shut her off ..let cool down run it second time, spit coolant out overflow.caught it and put it back in and checked to fill.. burped coolant couple times and rad started getting warm and finally got and kept nice safe zone temp.

ran most of it with cap off till got smart and put in on loose and caught coolant at overflow

assume mine was air locked and could not get water from rad to circulate....mayhaps same there?...just watch temp gauge and coolant level and oil

Jim B
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Re: 450B problem

Post by Jim B » Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:21 pm

You may not see coolant in the oil, depending on where the leak is, if there is one. Putting a pressure check on the cooling system is a good idea.

How full are you filling the radiator? Did you leave it down a couple inches in the tank? Along with some possible air locking, as dtoots1 mentioned, if filled to the top it is not uncommon to have coolant push out as an engine warms. If it is seeking its running level it should stop pushing coolant out when it is up to operating temp. Just a thought.

gaspumpsam
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Re: 450B problem

Post by gaspumpsam » Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:26 pm

Before starting, fill rad, then see if there is a coolant hose, plug, fitting near back top of cyl head, ( as high as posible) loosen
and see if air or coolant comes out ( bleeding the coolant system) , tighten, top up rad start and see if it make a difference.
Just a thought.

timmtnman
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Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:30 pm

Thanks for the advice. I did fill it up all the way with antifreeze before starting. Within a few seconds it started pushing it out. I thought I overfilled it and that was the cause, but it kept pushing it out in spurts and in a steam at times. It pushed out over a half gallon. I will try bleeding the air out and see what happens then.

Jim B
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Re: 450B problem

Post by Jim B » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:28 pm

I would expect it might push out more than 1/2 gallon if you filled it to the top. look at it cold and see where the level is now. My 450E will be 1 to 1-1/2' down when checked cold. Is the radiator cap the right length for the radiator neck? What pressure rating?

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jsal
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Re: 450B problem

Post by jsal » Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:45 am

If you fill radiator leave cap off watch for bubbles in neck running at idle most likely head gasket

JIM

timmtnman
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Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:35 pm

Thanks guys for all the input. Radiator cap is 7 lbs new from deere. So I pulled the cap off and coolant was a couple inches from top. Found a cockpit on left side of motor and loosened it up and coolant flowed out. Left cap off and started up. Had water flow since the thermostat is still out. Didnt notice any bubbles and reopened the cockpit to see if any air came out, but only coolant came out. Put the cap back on and didnt get any coolant out of the overflow. Guess it was air locked somehow causing the problem. Hopefully that is all it is. Will have to see what happens when the thermostat is installed. Is the cockpit on the motor to bleed the system.

Jim B
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Re: 450B problem

Post by Jim B » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:04 pm

Sounds like the level is about what I would expect to see. For a petcock to bleed air from the system it would really need to be at the high point, like the top of the head. On the left side of the engine, I expect you are looking at the drain (low point) for the cooling jacket of the engine, similar to the petcock in this picture, coolant is all that should come out of it. A thing some do, to provide a vent for trapped air, is to drill a hole about 1/16" (no more than 1/8") in the valve plate of the thermostat to give the air a path out by the closed thermostat. It will pass a bit of water as well so it will get warm coolant moving by the thermostat quicker. Some thermostats were made with a hole or notch for this purpose.

Image

dtoots1
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Re: 450B problem

Post by dtoots1 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:27 pm

that is enough to make a body worry abut needing major repair work....i will need to check my thermostat next time and make sure has that hole..
forgot these ld girls are a bit tempermental

Jim B
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Re: 450B problem

Post by Jim B » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:23 pm

Some say adding a hole is bad, will make an engine run cold. I have not seen a problem with any I drilled holes in. They cleared of air when filled and I have not seen that they run any cooler. That's been the results I've had, your results may vary.

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shinnery
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Re: 450B problem

Post by shinnery » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:36 pm

My personal opinion but I do not think a 1/8 inch hole would allow enough water flow to affect the temperature of an operating engine.
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timmtnman
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Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:08 pm

Thanks again for all the good advice. I was really worried about it being the head gasket. Thankfully it isn't at this point or at least I dont think it is. I have never heard about bleeding a cooling system. I think I'm going to drill the hole in the thermostat before replacing it. I wouldn't think that would make a big difference on the temperature.

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