450B problem

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LeonardL
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 869
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:11 pm
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Re: 450B problem

Post by LeonardL » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:05 am

If you have sent your pump out to be rebuilt, then the rebuilder should send you the seals when they return your pump. Most rebuilders will install the pump flange o-ring before they send it back to you. I have had a couple of places that just sent the o-ring and I had to put it on. Make sure it is on the pump because if you don't then you get an oil leak around the flange. I learned that the hard way as a young and very green mechanic. So I got the added experience of pulling a pump all over again.
It is a good idea to have a couple of extra cup seals just in case you do tear one. I usually get mine from Deere but only because they happen to be handy and my son is a mechanic with them. I have also bought them through our local NAPA store from Stanadyne. E-bay and Amazon also have them but be careful of getting the Chinese seals. Remember you get what you pay for. Make sure you are getting true Stanadyne seals. You might even ask Lavoy here on the site first as he sells parts and may have the seals in stock.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

timmtnman
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sylva NC

Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:36 pm

Thanks guys, I got the pump pulled off today and getting it ready to send off. Looking inside half way down looks like the seal is half way missing. Guess that is what's broke down. So when I reinstall the pump and the timing Mark's are lined up, it should be in time correct. Or is there more to it than that.

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LeonardL
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: 450B problem

Post by LeonardL » Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:44 am

Yes, as long as you line everything back up you should be good to go. There will be a "Dot" on the end of the shaft that correlates with a "Dot" on the inside of the pump. The pump shaft has a flat or rectangle shaped tang (male) that fits into a slot (female) inside the pump. The two dots should be pretty obvious when you look at them. When you line your two marks at the timing window on the pump your two dots should also line up.
With the timing pin in the flywheel, you want to make sure your two lines are still in line across with each other before you tighten it down. I think this has been mentioned but this is why the bolt holes on the pump flange are slotted so you can turn it a bit to make those two lines line up. Do this before you hook your injector lines back or it can make it hard to turn the pump. ( Personal preference ) Once you've done that and have your flange bolts or nuts tightened down you can pull your pin and proceed from there.
Some mechanics I've worked with like to install the pump but leave it slightly loose and fit all of the lines to it but also leave them loose. Then tweak your pump to get the timing lines to line up and tighten it down. Then tighten all the lines up as you bleed them. Either way is okay and I have also done them this way. As I said before I prefer to have all of the lines out of my way and then fit them back to the pump.
And... Just an FYI... You can turn your pump by inserting a large flat blade screw driver or some tool that will fit inside the slot on the inside of your pump. Just make sure what ever tool you use is clean before you put it inside the pump and be careful not to scratch the brass bushing. Most rebuilders will have the two lines pretty close and all you have to do is install the pump and then turn it a bit to line the lines.
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

timmtnman
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sylva NC

Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:50 pm

Thanks LeonardL, going to send the pump off tomorrow and they said they are 2 to 3 weeks out.

timmtnman
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sylva NC

Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:18 pm

Got my pump today finally. The timing Mark's where just a little off. Got the seals on. The dots line up. Started putting it on and it slides to the seal and stops. Started inspecting it and as you look inside the pump nothing lines up inside right behind the brass bushing. How do I get these in line so it slides over the shaft.

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LeonardL
350 crawler
350 crawler
Posts: 869
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:11 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: 450B problem

Post by LeonardL » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:20 pm

Okay... if I'm following you correctly. Once you get the pump slid on past your two seals you should be able to turn or rotate the pump one direction or another to align the slot and the end of the pump drive. I always try to estimate where the two will be close by using a large blade screw driver to turn the slot inside the pump. Look at the angle of the pump drive and then try to estimate where that will relate to the slot inside the pump. Remember to keep the dots oriented while you do this. Then after installing it onto the drive and I know the seals are okay, I work the pump by rotating it in both directions until the two line up. When they do you should be able to notice this as the pump should slide on up to the mounting plate. Then I usually put the nuts on the studs or bolt it in place depending on application and fit them so the pump can still turn.You want it loose enough for the pump to turn by hand pressure. Then you can turn the pump to get your timing lines to line up in the window. Once you have them lined up you can tighten it down and go from there. Make sense?
40 plus years working on JD 350s, 400Gs, 450s and other equipment both Ag and Construction.

timmtnman
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sylva NC

Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:30 pm

Thanks for helping me out with this pump. The problem was when you looked inside the pump below the brass bushing it was not centered up. So when I tried sliding it on the shaft would hit on that. Lavoy recommended using a screw driver to align them back up. Did that today and it slipped right on. Used my fingers to push the seal in which worked well and inspected with a mirror. It slid right on in. Lined the timing Mark's up and tightened it down. Started putting the fuel lines on and got rained out. Hopefully everything will be good to go. I am a little about what I did to get it to slide on. I figured it would be ready to install right out of the box when I got it back. Maybe it will be okay with what I did to make it slide on.
Many Thanks for all the help.

timmtnman
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sylva NC

Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:43 pm

Got everything back together today. Bleed the fuel system. Fired up after a couple turns, ran a little rough and rpms fluctuated for a bit. Cracked open the lines on injectors and let it run for 5 minutes and still same issue. Turned it off and let it sit for awhile and cranked it back up. It started running a little better then smoothed out in a few minutes. Must of still had some air in it to make it act that way. Other than a couple of issues everything went well. Thanks for all of the advice to make this easier.

nelstomlinson
430 crawler
430 crawler
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 11:03 am
Location: Delta Junction, Alaska

Re: 450B problem

Post by nelstomlinson » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:59 pm

These Stanadyne pumps are a complicated mess inside, and it's not hard to imagine that an air bubble somewhere inside would cause havoc.

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77 Ford
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:52 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: 450B problem

Post by 77 Ford » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:26 pm

I had issues with my banjo fittings starting to leak after about 6 hours of operation. I replaced all the copper washers when I put it on but they needed snugged up again. Might keep an eye on them.
JD- 450C track loader
Serial #208336T

timmtnman
440 crawler
440 crawler
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sylva NC

Re: 450B problem

Post by timmtnman » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:08 pm

That little bit of air in it made me think I did something wrong. It has been starting and running good so far. Haven't got to work it any yet but I'm sure it will do alot better now. I'll keep my eye on it for any leaks. Thanks for the advice

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