JD450B won’t steer

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Acesneights1
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JD450B won’t steer

Post by Acesneights1 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:33 am

Hello,
Just picked up a 1978 JD 450B. The PO said he replaced the right side steering clutch but did not adj it right. Machine will not turn either way just moving. If I stop and pull the left lever hard and almost dump the clutch pedal it will turn left. It will not turn right. Left lever has much more resistance than right. If I am going up hill it or oushing dirt it will steer a little either way. Where should I start looking for the issues ? My suspicion is the right(new) clutch band brake may be out of adj and the left clutch swollen ?

Jim B
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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Jim B » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:44 pm

Welcome to the Board.

The 450Bs ended in 1976 so yours is either earlier than that or not a B, paint and decals applied over the last 40 plus years are not always correct. If you post the whole alpha-numeric shown on your serial number/identification tag we can likely confirm what you have.

To start with you need a manual if you don't have one (service/technical and operator's manuals to start with, parts is a plus). You should confirm your serial number first in case it is not a B, each letter series had their own manuals.

Adjustments need to be done in the order shown in the manual and as shown, no shortcuts to get it right. Adjustments may get you going or they may uncover other issues. If he did not check/set the pressure plate right that might play into part of the problem on the side he did. If it is a late B or after it could have wet steering clutches and brakes. If it is an early B or straight 450 they will be dry. If the dry ones have oil contamination they will need to be replaced.

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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Lavoy » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:19 pm

If it stops all together, it may also be main clutch/trans issue. Just one clutch being bad would not stop all motion.
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Acesneights1
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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Acesneights1 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:45 pm

Ok I tried a little test. Pulled both levers back and it still kept going forward. We pulled the access covers off and both brake bands are covered in oil so either its a wet system or I have a major problem. It will steer going up a up or if I hold the lever, the brake pedal and pop the clutch which I know is not right. It almost steers normal up hill pushing but downhill forget it. He gave me a bill of sale that says 1978 450B but here is the serial number 121186.
I noticed the brake band he replaced looked like the lining was not on the band right like squished out or not attached. Also felt like it was some kind of rubber ??.

Acesneights1
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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Acesneights1 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:46 pm

By the way it pushes good. i can steer it a little if I am creative.

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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Acesneights1 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:47 pm

Also thank you for the welcome👍

B Town
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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by B Town » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:58 pm

According to Stan’s SN post in the FAQ section, you crawler is a 1971 B series (I initially mis-read your SN as 112,xxx). So dry clutches. Tear done a rebuild, sorry. Bruce
Last edited by B Town on Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jim B
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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Jim B » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:05 pm

If you can, please post the entire ID that is on the serial number tag, not what the seller wrote down or Just the six digits. Just trying to help you confirm what you really have model and yearwise. Is the tag behind your right calf on the panel below the seat cushion or on the front panel of the battery box?

121186 falls in the 1971 range (121124 to 138713) for a 450B. That would be an early B, which I expect would have dry steering clutches. This is looking like you are going to be doing steering clutches and brakes. When you say the brake bands are covered with oil; do you mean coated with oil or submerged in oil? Do you have a throwout bearing pushing fingers on a pressure plate in each steering clutch compartment?

Acesneights1
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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Acesneights1 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:32 pm

I’ll look again. They were I guess you’d say heavily coated in oil. I could not see the clutch fingers. Is there any harm running it the way I have ? I may just clear my land and sell it. I dont have a way to break the tracks apart and I would imagine it would thousands to have John Deere do it. The guy was dishonest who sold it to me I guess. It looks like he did one of the clutches from all the silicone. Think I can get back the 5k I paid for it ? Also I have the factory manual. Machine is in good condition other than the clutches, i was leery of buying it seeing as how I looked at a bunch of these and all of them seem to have steering issues. What would you say it’s worth ?

Jim B
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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Jim B » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:57 am

Holding a lever, pressing the foot brake and popping the clutch is just looking to break something in my opinion. The foot brake applies both brakes evenly, if they are adjusted and working right, so pressing the brake pedal could be defeating the turning effort to some extent.

At a minimum,you should try doing all the adjustments by the manual on both sides before continuing to run it. The fact that it pushes well and doesn't slip under load would indicate the engine clutch is ok and the steering clutches are gripping some at present. Properly adjusting the steering clutches and brakes may get you by for a time, but having oil coating the components in dry clutch compartments, it sounds like major repair will be coming.

Location and what is available in different areas affects prices. So for as for what it is worth, you said you looked at a bunch of these, so you already have an idea of what the prices are running in your area. JMHO
Jim

Acesneights1
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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Acesneights1 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:41 am

I’m gonna try and do the adj. a local shop suggested loosening the band brakes and running it like that so I could pull the clutch all the way back. He said they get rust between the disks from. He said he did a couple that the clutches were fine just had some rust. He cleaned them up and lut it backtogether but I would be looking at about 1200$ labor. That is not horrible actually. With parts it sounds like an under 4k job. Maybe less. That would out the investment at 8-9k and the machine is in very good condition otherwsie. I have done tracks and final drives before years ago on a Komatsu And. dresser. One of them it was easy to take the track off. Just had to remove one pad and the track unhooked. These are apparently pressed on and I dont have anything capable of pressing the pins in and out.

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Re: JD450B won’t steer

Post by Robert1 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:53 pm

Pull pipe plugs from bottom of housing if there and simple green and hot pressure washer housing. Dry with compressed air.

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