450C fluid changes

[8thnotch]

1975 450C drained and changed tank filter for hydraulics, filter was plugged pretty good. Fresh fluid hydraulics seem faster and smoother. Other than engine fluid and filter what other fluids do I have looks like there’s a filter on side of transmission there’s a plate with 3 bolts on side of it .Is that a screen in there or a filter ? . Than there’s the filter behind rad that’s also trans filter ? Same part number as my oil filter . Than there’s back of machine where Hoe hangs there’s a plate with 3 bolts ,is there a filter in there also ? .Is that for final drives or rear end ? . There’s the top caps and bottom caps for the final drives I assume fill at top plug until runs out at bottom plugs? . Yes service manual is ordered lol . Been so long since I touched a dozer and the oNe I used to work on was a Cat . I assume this machine is not a common sump.Hoe does one tell if it is or was changed over to one with the service bulletin back then and the mods to make it common sump . Thanks again everyone.

[77 Ford]

In the side of the transmission is a screen, you have to drain all the fluid in the transmission to service it. Yes, it needs to be done. On the back of the loader are you talking about the PTO cover? Some machines had PTO but all machines I think have the cover. Finial drives drain out the bottom and fill to the plug in the side, I don't think there is a cap in the top. There was a thread recently discussing the common sump issue, I'm not sure how you tell. Some people think if it's common sump fluid comes out the fill hole and if it's not you fill it till it's trying to come out. However when I serviced mine I put the amount of fluid in each side as was required and I was no where near the top of the fill plus. I'm not sure how to explain that.

[Jim B]

To clarify. The common sump issue applies only to the transmission and steering clutches. The steering clutch compartment fill plugs are at the top of the housing inboard of the pads and about in line, above the vertical center line of the sprocket. The oil levels for the final drives are not included in that. The each final drive housing drain is at the bottom, on the inside face of the final housing, just above the track pads. The fill/check plug is part way up the the rear of the final drive housing, again more or less inside the track pads.

There are some posts about the changes made to make the common sump. Your serial number may help as it was a production change and the later 450Cs were built as common sumps. Lavoy or someone may have a copy of the service bulletin/information of the changes to make the common sump and you could check for those changes on yours.

[8thnotch]

I know where the drain an fill plugs are ,for the final drives . Not sure on the steering clutches ? There is two plugs up high on the body of machine one each side bigger plugs than the finals are they inspection or fill for the steering clutches , if so where’s drains for steering clutches. Back of machine has a round plate three bolts looks like same cover plate that’s on screen of tranny so I thought maybe there was another filter or screen in there but may well be a cover for PTO . I will investigate it when I can .

[Jim B]

Bottom of the steering clutch housing, between the final drive housing and belly pan, you should see a couple 1/2" pipe plugs in the bottom of the steering clutch housing, one in the flat surface and one in the inclined surface forward of the first. Those will drain it. The 1" fill plug is just above and inboard of the track pads, in line with the vertical center of the sprocket, in a small recessed area in the side of the steering clutch housing.

The 3 bolt cover at the rear is where a (PTO or winch) power shaft would be installed, no filter in there.

From the serial number you posted a while back it looks like yours is a 1975 machine which would be a second year of production. It might not have been a common sump machine, but may have been converted. Here is a link to a post where Dr. Loch gave someone a rundown of the conversion a few years ago. When you get your service/technical manual this info may be in it as well. viewtopic.php?t=10187

[8thnotch]

What is the benefit of a common sump for these machines? Does it make it any better how exactly does it work ? Thank Jim

[Jim B]

The common sump just means all three can intermingle and will have the same level. Three compartments can be checked with one dipstick vs. using one dipstick and removing 2 plugs to check the three compartments. Less chance of getting dirt into the steering clutch housing than if you have to remove the plugs to check the levels. Also if a minor leak, which could leak over an extended time with out being noticed operationally, in a steering clutch actuating pressure line or seal inside a steering clutch housing it won't overfill the steering clutch housing while lowering the transmission oil. Transmission oil is used to operate the steering system. Some reasons I can think of, there may be others as well.

[NIKinNZ]

Thanks for all the info in this tread. I have just purchased a 450C (1975 i believe) the serial number is 450 CJ 271126T i can see where the clutch filler holes are (just above the tracks in the triangle recess - 1/2 inch socket square plug) cant quite find the drain plugs but will check further, but my main question is, what Oil is recommended for the clutch? and is there a fill level?

[Jim B]

450C J 271126T should be a 1977 machine by the serial number. The J means it is (or left the factory) as a drawbar machine, no blade or loader.

I am thinking your 450C has a common sump, at least I think they were by then. Some of the earlier ones were not common sump but were converted using a service bulletin. If it is common sump, the plugs you mention should be "Loctited" in to prevent removal. The level is filled at and checked by the transmission dipstick. The operator's Manual will give you draining and filling instructions.

To aid in your normal service work you should have a copy of the Operator's Manual for it. I don't know if it will work from you location (New Zealand) however you can try using this link to get a free pdf copy of the Operator's manual via download. It should take you to the JD Construction and Forestry store. https://www.johndeeretechinfo.com/

On that homepage type OMT71338 in the "Search Term" (center) box and click the search icon. It should bring that manual up for you. Then if you click on the Download button it will download a free copy you can save on your device (and print if you want). As I say it works here in the USA, I can't say for certain it will work from your location, but it won't cost anything to try.

Recommended transmission/hydraulic fluid is primarily John Deere Hy Gard. A generic UTHF (Universal Tractor (or Transmission) Hydraulic Fluid) should list on the label, or its product data sheet, that it meets the John Deere JDM J20C specification. The Operator's Manual will have some alternates based on temperatures. 

[NIKinNZ]

Thanks Jim B and all those who responded, this has helped a lot. Next question (i may need to start a new thread) i want to lubricate my rollers, im getting conflicting info, some say use corn grease, others say Track Idler roller lubricant (cant find the specs on that) but i have the flat style button grease nipples, im trying to find the size of them so i can get the suitable adapter for my grease gun, any ideas?

[Jim B]

If the site is accessible from your location (New Zealand?) this page from McMaster-Carr (a large supply house in the USA) has a good bit of info on all grease fittings and gun attachments which may help you find what you need. Head diameter is needed to get the proper adapter or gun tip.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/grease-fittings/

As for the lube in the rollers and idlers. The Operator's Manual shows you the check locations, proper procedure, and lubricant to use. If someone has been greasing the rollers it could be a sign the seals are blown, and the rollers will not hold the recommended SAE 30 oil. You may need to remove the fittings to see if they have grease or oil in them.

Did you try to download the Operator's Manual I gave you info on in my previous post? It will answer many of your questions without the wait for someone to respond to a question on a forum.

[NIKinNZ]

Thanks Jim, Yes i got the manual from that link thanks, that helps tremendously. Thanks for your time and help on this.

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Well, track and.roller lube is NLA. So Corn Head grease is what you need to use. And get a Low Pressure gun, not a normal one or you won't have any seals left to worry about.

Stan

[Jim B]

Good morning Stan,

In this case I am going to have to respectfully disagree with your post. Here is where the correct manual comes into play. These rolls are different as far as lube instructions than the earlier ones, like the 350C. If the lube was checked properly, in 450C rolls similar to the one pictured in my post, the seals will not blow as the level plug hole being open provides a vent to prevent pressure build up. SAE 30 is the recommended lubricant in the manual. If the roll has wear enough that the seals were damaged or lube was forced in without being properly vented; the seal could be leaking and then corn head grease would be a possible lube to reduce leaking.

Best regards,
Jim

[Stan Disbrow]

Hi,

Ok. There was that change along the way.

My post is correct if one has the older rollers on a C model as does my 350C.

Stan