Swapping 4045T With 4039D 550G Dozer Help

[darrenrudolph83]

Hello,

I am looking for a quick answer on a question, will a 4039 engine fit in place of a 4045T? It would be going in a JD550G Dozer.

Thank you in advance for any help!

[LeonardL]

I think it should fit. Your 4039 will be a smaller engine in displacement so your power curve will be a bit lower than with the 4045. You may have to change the rear mounting plate ( Bell Housing ) from one to the other and maybe some other things. It has been a while since I was last around the two engines and I'm old and have slept a lot. But it should work.

[darrenrudolph83]

I think it should fit. Your 4039 will be a smaller engine in displacement so your power curve will be a bit lower than with the 4045. You may have to change the rear mounting plate ( Bell Housing ) from one to the other and maybe some other things. It has been a while since I was last around the two engines and I'm old and have slept a lot. But it should work.

Leonard,

Thank you for taking the time to reply! I have done many hours of research since posting this as well as spoken with the local JD Dealer's service dept. the engine itself should bolt in like you said, the external parts/pieces should also be interchangeable. My dozer has a 4045T in it, the 4039 that I purchased yesterday is a 4039D so no turbo.... The 4039T and 4045T both take the same turbo ect.. The only question I haven't been able to get answered is: Can I just swap everything over from my 4045T onto my 4039D and make it a 4039T? basically put the turbo on the new engine and throw it in the dozer?

Also, would the injection pump work off of the 4045T on the 4039? Both have good working pumps, the linkage setup on the new engine is on the opposite side of the injection pump. It might be able to be switched, I just haven't looked yet.

Just a quick run down on why the engine swap,
The 4045T has to be pulled from my 550G dozer due to a leaking input shaft seal, the engine runs great but has pretty bad blow by and with the engine coming out anyways I don't like the idea of putting it back in without a rebuild. This new engine has 2000 hrs and runs amazing! That's my crazy thinking

[darrenrudolph83]

I cant seem to get a picture to load, I found a manual online that has some engine specs for both and was curious if they sounded correct?

4039T 110HP W/O Fan @ Rated Speed
4045T 115HP W/O Fan @ Rated Speed

Does that sound correct?

[Jim B]

I believe if you check deeper the turbocharged engines have passages to provide oil cooling of the pistons which the naturally aspirated engines don't, for one major difference. I believe you can set it up as turbo'd; but without that cooling you risk engine damage. If you study the parts books for the engines; there are different short blocks listed for turbo and without turbo, so there are differences. As far as the pumps swapping the 4045T pump may over fuel the 4039. JD or a pump shop should be able to tell you the fuel rates of each pump.

I would lean towards put the 4039 in with the minimal amount of changes and make the machine usable for now. Then get the 4045T rebuilt and back in it next year.

[darrenrudolph83]

I believe if you check deeper the turbocharged engines have passages to provide oil cooling of the pistons which the naturally aspirated engines don't, for one major difference. I believe you can set it up as turbo'd; but without that cooling you risk engine damage. If you study the parts books for the engines; there are different short blocks listed for turbo and without turbo, so there are differences. As far as the pumps swapping the 4045T pump may over fuel the 4039. JD or a pump shop should be able to tell you the fuel rates of each pump.

I would lean towards put the 4039 in with the minimal amount of changes and make the machine usable for now. Then get the 4045T rebuilt and back in it next year.

Thank you for the info!

That is not what I was wanting to hear but I would rather find out now then halfway through this. The machine I bought for the engine can still be re-sold I suppose. I need to do this all in one shot, my dozer is at my remote cabin so I don't want to be doing another engine swap next year.

I ordered some parts books but do not currently have them on hand. I will try and dig deeper into the turbo situation and see what I can find out.

Thanks
Darren

[Jim B]

You can use John Deere's on line parts catalogs for free. Here is a link to their site. https://www.deere.com/en/parts-and-service/parts/

[darrenrudolph83]

You can use John Deere's on line parts catalogs for free. Here is a link to their site. https://www.deere.com/en/parts-and-service/parts/

Jim,

Thanks again! I do see the different blocks listed but cant seem to find out what the differences are....

[darrenrudolph83]

Has anyone done a swap like this before? Adding a turbo to a non turbo engine, I know people add turbos to all kinds of engines in vehicles but what about something like this.

If I did add the turbo to this 4039 and installed it in my dozer what would I need to watch for so I didn't damage the engine? Water Temp? I am fairly sure everything will bolt on so no modifications will need to be made. This is a personal use dozer so it will not be working hard 12hr days.

If the turbo is added will anything else need changed? Injection pump or anything? With the engine running stronger and breathing heavier seems like something else would need adjusted, maybe not....

[Jim B]

I believe the main difference is blocks intended for use with turbos have passages drilled in them to supply oil to the piston cooling nozzles. Also I think not all 4039 engines had engine oil coolers (oil to water).

[LeonardL]

I am with Jim on this... I personally would rebuild the 4045 and put it back in the machine and keep it pure. You will spend about the same amount of time overhauling the current motor as you will in trying to retro fit the other one.
There are differences in the pumps (Mostly settings) and the injectors ( Again mostly settings ) for these turbo units. You will burn a piston, if not all of them and your valves stand a good chance at getting cooked as well. All it takes is one good hard push and the damage is done. Once it starts it cascades from that point on. You have to remember these turbo's are basically jet propulsion. They're like the front half of a jet engine. Those exhaust gases are super heated and without the proper cooling then things break down.

If you are only doing personal low impact work and you plan on keeping the machine, I would consider putting the 4039 in as a naturally aspirated engine and go with it. I think you would be surprised at the performance you will get.

Jim is correct in that these engines are enough different that I would be afraid of mounting a turbo on a naturally aspirated engine. I know guys have done this and then bragged about the power they gained. But what we never hear is when they have to take the motor out because they burned it up.

I had a fellow bring his 350C to me because his engine had seized and he wanted me to overhaul it or replace it. When I saw what they had done I couldn't help smiling because I knew what I would find. They had added a turbo to a naturally aspirated 3167D which is what came out in the 350C's. Once I took the head off, the inside of this motor looked like someone had taken an acetylene torch to it. Not pretty!!

I am sorry we don't have better news for you. But if you want to do this right then that is what you're going to hear from most of us. There is no easy fix on anything if you do it right.

In the end you will do what you will do. Ultimately it is yours to do what you want. But... I know what I would do if it were mine.

[darrenrudolph83]

Jim, Leonard,

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to answer my questions and point me in the right direction. I think I have heard enough now to know what I need to do, I will not be adding the turbo to the 4039 simply because I do not want to be pulling another engine next year or even in the next few years. I was hoping this would work out like I had planned it in my head haha but that usually isn't the case.

Rather then having to learn these hard lessons by doing, I much prefer to get input and guidance from people that have been down this road before or have seen it happen. Thanks again

I have a few weeks before I can get back out to my dozer so I have some time to decide if I want to rebuild my 4045 or put the stock 4039 in. If I did the stock 4039 do you think it would still produce good power and still be able to push hard? My main job for this 550 is to push in a 1400ft airstrip, moving a lot of ground and tearing up hundreds of large stumps.

Also, I can continue to run the 4045... It runs really well just has a good amount of blow by and since ill be pulling it anyways to replace the input shaft seal I was thinking it was a good opportunity to freshen up the engine.

[darrenrudolph83]

I have one more question...

I bought a 1997 Ferguson SP-912 Roller that has the 4039D engine in it, I just realized the starter is on the opposite side of the engine from my dozer. It seems that since the starter mounts to the engine block and not the trans that this should still work on the dozer?? Does that sound correct?

Seems like every time I try and save a few bucks it costs me more time, aggravation and money...

[Jim B]

I don't know if there will be a difference in the two flywheels or not. You might have to swap the flywheels. The parts book shows different flywheels in the 550G 4045T depending on convertor or not. Then the question will be if you have to swap flywheels, do you need to swap the housing plate that the starter mounts to as well. If that happens you will be looking at replacing the engine rear main seal (depending on the seal there maybe special JD tools required to install the seal). Wish I could say no problem, but I just don't know. I don't know if Deere can tell you anything from the two serial numbers or not. There may be some info in the roller parts book if you have it. You might be able to compare part numbers if the roller parts book has the JD numbers for those parts.

[LeonardL]

Okay so let me make sure I follow you. The 4039 that you are wanting to use is in a roller and not another John Deere crawler? Maybe you mentioned that and I just missed it. Which given my dumbass factor would make it a great possibility!! That being said and in case I did not miss something then here is what you will have to do.

Jim is on the right track about the flywheel and engine mounting plate. You will need to swap both over from your 4045 to the 4039. This will put your starter on the right side of the engine for your crawler. Unfortunately you will have to install a new rear main seal and yes it does take a special tool to install them. When you do this, be sure to look at what seal the 4039 has on it. If it is the old style seal then it will have a wear ring pressed onto the crankshaft. You will need to remove this wear ring before you can install the newer style seal. They are a two piece seal that installs all together. Thus the special tool you will have to use.

Another issue you may or may not encounter is the Tachometer drive on the backend of the cam shaft. The 4039 being in a roller could mean that they used a different tach drive or perhaps none at all. If you can do without a tachometer then there is no real problem except that I highly recommend you should have one.

You may also have to swap the entire front end of your 4045 over to the 4039. When these other companies bought and used Deere engines to run their equipment, they used either an Ag tractor or Stationary unit engines. These applications have completely different water pumps and alternator configurations. So that means all of your front end engine parts from the front plate out will need to be swapped over.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this is what you will have to do. You may get lucky and the fronts of both motors will be the same. But you will definitely have to swap the rear plate and flywheel.