JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

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sspony
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by sspony » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:02 am

I'll see if I can snap one later this week.

Did ya notice the lack of inner rock gaurd? I crawled under there and immediately noticed that.

List of used parts im casually looking for:
- muffler (Part # AT19157)
- vented fuel cap
- inner rock guard
Last edited by sspony on Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JD 450A European w/backhoe

Jim B
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by Jim B » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:38 am

You will need to cross check the part numbers between your actual parts catalogs and the catalog for the US 450s to see what is the same in your search for used parts. As I posted your parts catalog, PC4119, is not on line for viewing. If you can find a 450A parts machine, you may need to physically measure up the rock guard to see if a 450 one will fit, or can be modified to fit. It often helps to use the part numbers when doing on line searches.

Again, The US 450s had a vent built into the fuel tank, they do not use a vented cap to reduce fuel slopping out the cap. Your tank may be built similar and not need a vented cap. If the vent, like used in the US machines, is there you will see a small open tube end showing in the filler neck, along with the tank dipstick gauge, thus my request for the picture inside the filler neck.

sspony
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by sspony » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:42 pm

Fluid and filters on the way!
JD 450A European w/backhoe

sspony
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by sspony » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:41 am

Went to start it and no smoke. Obviously an issue with the post fuel filters bleeding. Can someone give me a step by step on how to bleed this entire system. Yes i have a manual, and its not helpful.

Worth noting, the fuel filter housing only has one bleed port at the top of the rear filter. Also the priming pump seems to work well.

Image

Image
Last edited by sspony on Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JD 450A European w/backhoe

Jim B
350 crawler
350 crawler
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Location: western Maine

Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by Jim B » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:25 pm

First be sure the filter gaskets didn’t slip into the wrong place. A few dabs of grease will hold the gaskets up in the grooves for them in the housing head. That works better for me than trying to keep them balanced on the rim of the element while installing it.
Image
With the filters in place, open the bleeder screw and pump the hand primer until clear fuel comes out the bleeder. Slowly pump the lever as you close that bleeder so you know it is full of fuel. I would crack the line at the inlet of the injection pump to be sure fuel has made it that far. Before pumping more fuel; there is supposed to be a filter screen in the injection pump right under that inlet line fitting. You might want to check that screen to see if it is clean. Clean it if it is not. Reinstall the filter and line. Open the bleeder screw on the side of the pump body and pump the primer until you get a clear flow of fuel at that bleeder, then close it. I can’t see it in your picture but there is often a bleeder like that in the head as well. If there is one open it and pump until you get clear fuel flow.
Image
Next loosen the injection lines from the pump at the injector ends. Loose works they don’t need to be off the injectors. For this next step be sure the crawler is in neutral and the fuel shut off cable is in the run position and the throttle set ½ open or better. To bleed from the injection pump to the injectors you have to use the starter and crank the engine over; not the hand primer lever. When you see spurts of fuel (at the loose injector connections) while cranking the engine over, tighten the line nuts. A point of safety: Keep hands, fingers, and body parts clear of high-pressure line leaks. Oil injected under the skin is harmful and even deadly. It should start once you have fuel to all the injectors. I would expect to see a blue white smoke during start cranking, not black.

sspony
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by sspony » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:04 pm

Thanks for the step by step. Filter gaskets are good and seated correctly. I will attempt to bleed the rest tomorrow.
One question, I noticed when I was trying to bleed the filters that I would use the primer and fuel would start to come out of the bleeder then slowly sink back into the fuel filter housing. Why does the level appear to always be dropping back down?

Also heres the filler neck you wanted to see.

Image

New hydraulic filters and fluid install. Also new engine oil and filter. Just need to finish the fuel system, then the transmission.
JD 450A European w/backhoe

Jim B
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by Jim B » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:35 pm

When the pump pushes fuel it disturbs the fuel in the filter and it froths some, as water in a pail will when hit by water from a hose, along with air coming out of the filter media and not a real tight check valve in the pumps. I expect you may see that more with the one bleeder screw verses the type housing with a bleeder for each filter. That is why you continue making a slow stroke on the pump as you close the bleeder after you see clear fuel during pumping. My thoughts, others may have different one.

Your filler neck and cap is not like the North American 450s. They look like the 350c filler neck in this topic Stan Disbrow posted viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13107. What diameter is the ID of the filler neck where the cap tangs are held and the slots where they insert, it looks larger than the wheel tractor tanks I am familiar with. Not saying something JD sells in the US doesn't have that type cap, but nothing I readily think of. That would be where your 450A parts catalog will be needed.

The 450G and some of the new models have side tanks and use a vented cap, from what I have found by part numbers and pictures, but they don't use locking tangs like yours; they thread on similar to the older 450s.

sspony
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by sspony » Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:24 pm

So I attempted to bleed the fuel system today. I was able to get the filters and injection pump bled. However, i can only get fuel to barely dribble out of the injector lines. Any idea what my problem might be? Its not even trying to start at all now. It usually fires right up.
JD 450A European w/backhoe

Jim B
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by Jim B » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:04 pm

May still have an air bubble in the pump. With the fuel lines loose at the injectors they often just dribble. The injector nozzle has a valve that won't open until it reaches the set pressure, without the lines tight the nozzles won't pop and spray. If you have some fuel coming out the lines tighten them up. Open the throttle wide open. Then try loosening one at a time, while cranking, to see if you get more fuel that way. Just crack the line nut loose, don't remove it, when you do this.

How fast is it cranking over, if its slowing from all the bleeding you may have to give it a boost to get the cranking speed up.

What is the current temperature where you are? What was it last time it was started?

sspony
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by sspony » Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:50 pm

Jim, just wanna say thanks for all of the replies on here!

So I have a steady dribble at each injector. I tried closing all but one and seeing if the pressure would build but I dont think the injectors are popping open. It could be cranking speed, poor starter got a work out today. Battery was dead, even hooked to the truck it was slowing down.
I drove it to where it is about 1.5 weeks ago. Used to always fire right up. It sat for 3 years and fired right up.

Temp is in the high 30's to low 40's at night but hitting 55-65 during the day.

I should also add that after messing with all of the injector lines I noticed a little fuel/air bubble coming out from around 2 of the injector o rings. It wasnt doing that before, but im sure moving things around compromised the seals. Is this something im gonna need to replace now?
JD 450A European w/backhoe

Jim B
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by Jim B » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:30 am

I'm not sure what/where you are seeing the bubbles from injector O-rings. Is this around the injector nozzle body where it goes down into the cylinder head? If the nozzles were tight in the head those shouldn't have moved just loosening the line nuts to bleed the lines.

With fully charged battery, and a boost on it also, give it a try again. Try a round of bleeding the injector lines, then try starting it. Some will disagree with this, but one of my thoughts is it may be cool enough that a sniff of starting fluid may make the difference when trying to start it this time. Just a quick little spray across the intake, not directly into it, while it is cranking may help it clear the last bit of air from the system. Use starting fluid sparingly.

sspony
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by sspony » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:57 am

That's correct, where the injector goes into the head (See item #11 in diagram below). I didn't do anything to the bolt that holds them in (#9) but I think the movement of loosening the lines compromised the seals. Could that cause me an issue?

Image

What about a little diesel fuel into the intake instead of starting fluid? You may be right that its not cranking over fast enough to build the required pressure to pop the injectors open since there may be some air in the system. That said it used to start up even when cranking slowly, but it probably didn't have any air in the system.
JD 450A European w/backhoe

Jim B
350 crawler
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by Jim B » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:04 pm

If those seals are leaking they will be leaking "compression" from the cylinders. I wonder if they were starting to leak a bit prior to this. You will need to change them if they continue to leak. They can be a pain to change, lower ones (carbon stop) more so than the top ones, they are not O-rings. The holes in the head will need to be cleaned as well.

You could try some thing like WD40 or a spray lubricant instead of starting fluid. Diesel would work if you can get it to spray in a mist. It needs to reach the cylinders atomized, Did you find a bleeder anywhere on the injection pump head? Hopefully if it is turning over good next time it will go. Air in a fuel system can be a big pain.

sspony
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by sspony » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:47 pm

What numbers are you referring to when you say carbon stop? #11 is a rubber type oring. What makes them hard to change?
JD 450A European w/backhoe

Jim B
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:36 am
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Re: JD 450 tune up (Euro Market)

Post by Jim B » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:26 pm

12 is the called the carbon stop and fits into a groove in the nozzle body and has to be carefully stretched over the body and slid to the groove where it shrinks into the groove. It should be a poly like material. They make a pilot tool to help with installing those. If a nozzle is removed, both 11 and 12 should be replaced.

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