350B Stalled. Fuel Issue?

[Kaiverol]

Started my 350B today and it ran ok for about 10 seconds and then died. Tried again and same thing happened a few times. Checked fuel level and while low was not empty. Started again and finally it stayed running. Was not driving, but just using hydraulics and moving a few feet. This has never happened before and just used crawler the day before. Figure it is a fuel issue, but I have never touched anything on fuel system. I know fuel is old for sure and don’t know how to drain or bleed. There are two screws on the bottom of the dual fuel filter housing. Is this a good place to start to drain off water if any? I don’t know of any other drains or what else should be done?

[Jim B]

I don't see that you specifically said anywhere, so based on you saying fuel and two filters I'm assuming this is a diesel. Yes, the drain screws in the center of the bolts that hold the bottom bowls on the filter are to drain sediments and water from the bowls.

In the past you said you don't know the history. If it was mine, I would start by changing all the filters (not just draining the bottom bowls of the fuel filters) and changing the engine and transmission oils (clean or change the sump screen in the transmission while the oil is drained). I would at least check the hydraulic oil, power steering (if equipped) and final drive oils, changing them if the don't look good. If you change the fuel filters and the problem persists, you may have more serious fuel system issues.

When you change the fuel filters be sure you get the gaskets that seal the top of the new cartridges up in the groove of the head housing. If you use Wix/NAPA fuel filters the fuel outlet ports of the cartridge will be blocked if the gasket ends up down inside the groove around the top of the cartridge and blocks the outlet slots.

Add some fresh fuel. I would add a liberal dose of a good fuel conditioner/cleaner like Stanadyne, Howes, Power Service, Lucas.

Your operator's and service manuals help to guide you through things. Then if you have a question you can ask and refer to what you read and the guys will help with details. One important thing to remember is where your manual(s) may call for 303 oil, use a current universal transmission/hydraulic fluid meeting John Deere spec J20C (or John Deere's Hy-Gard). 303 is outdated and can't be duplicated as a key component (sperm whale oil) is no longer available. Sellers saying it is 303 oil are just dumping cheap oil and sales have been banned in some states.

[Kaiverol]

It is a diesel. I have already changed transmission oil to Hygard. Did not do anything with sump screen. When I park the 350B in the garage for the winter I will start changing and checking all fluids. Plan to use JD filters. I have power steering as well.
I already have a JD filter for when I change the engine oil. I read in a technical article that I can use 15W40. I don’t plan to use the crawler in temps below 32. Will add some clean fuel now and add stabilizer.

[Jim B]

I run 15W40 year round and we can go down to -20F or lower at times. I do have engine heaters on most equipment but they will still start without heat if needed. You should be fine with 15W40.

Change the fuel filters now, if you haven't, don't wait until this winter.

[Kaiverol]

I’ll pick some up Monday. Poured in five gallons of fuel with Power Service conditioner. Did not try to operate as I was busy doing other things and it started to rain.

When I change filters, do I just bleed at filter? Do I crank to prime? Never done this.

[jbshocks]

Certainly change fuel filters but I ran into issues where it would run good for awhile and quit. I discovered it was bad lift pump. If the fuel level was high enough it would run.

[Jim B]

As for changing the fuel filters and bleeding the system, I'm going to take the lazy route. I believe you posted a few posts back that you have the Operator's Manual. Rather than my typing it all out, the entire procedure should be in your Operator's Manual, it is for my JDs.

[Kaiverol]

Good answer. I won’t say I was lazy, cuz I read a lot. In fact before I logged in I had just reviewed the manual and found the procedure. Felt pretty comfortable going forward, but even my operating manual shows the new type of fuel filter that I don’t have and I have not located the priming lever yet, so I need to take a closer look. Also, I have searched hi and low for my 350’s serial number, but can’t find it. Therefore, I don’t always have confidence I am looking at the right info. Forget about other screens and line filters.

[Jim B]

From the 350B parts catalog. "THE BASIC TRACTOR SERIAL NUMBER OF TRACTORS BUILT PRIOR TO SERIAL NUMBER 142200 IS LOCATED ON THE FRONT SEAT PANEL. THE BASIC TRACTOR SERIAL NUMBER FOR TRACTORS BUILT AFTER SERIAL NUMBER 142199 IS LOCATED ON THE BATTERY BOX FRONT PLATE."

Look for two 1/8" holes about 3 " apart on the panel below the seat, about behind your right calf if you were setting in the seat or on the front of the battery box, where you would look right at it when mounting the crawler from the left side. If you find the two holes, in one place or the other, your serial number tag is gone.

Sounds like yours has the dual stage filter set up. From the parts catalog serial number 191713 and before used the two filter elements. Starting with serial number 191714 the rectangular fuel filter was used. That is not 100% an identifier as sometimes people upgraded the two stage filter set up to the rectangular filter. I would guess your machine is prior to 191713 (1974 or earlier).

Priming lever is only a couple inches long, located on the underside of the fuel transfer/lift pump. If it doesn't seem to do any thing bump the engine over a bit. You won't get a stroke on the hand lever if the pump's arm is on the high part of the cam lobe. Install your new filters. (If you use Wix 33166 or NAPA 3166 be sure you don't let a gasket get down into the slot around the top of the filter.) Open the bleeder screw at the top of the housing over each filter. Pump the hand lever. When clear fuel comes out the first bleeder, close the bleeder while pumping slowly. Continue pumping until clear fuel comes out the second bleeder screw, close it while pumping slowly. From there on the procedure should be the same as with the rectangular filter.

JD may have changed the manuals over the years and only show the rectangular filter now. JD says the Operator's manual is JD # OMT46859, Is that the one you have? I looked at manuals I have and I don't have an operator's manual with the dual stage filter bleeding procedure, or I'd try to get a copy of that for you..

[Kaiverol]

Changed the two fuel filters today. Found one oring had not been installed. First bowl was very dirty. Manual primer did not work, even after jogging the engine multiple times. Therefore had to prime by cranking the engine. Followed procedure and bled first filter and then moved onto second bleeder. Engine started, but did not run well. It even stalled. However, after a while it stabilized and was able to run high rpm with no problem. Have not driven yet, because I’m going to do an oil change first. Didn’t have a large enough socket on hand today.

I may get some new Orings for the bleeder screws. One leaked and I had to Teflon tape the threads a bit.

Looked again for the SN, but no luck. Did not find any holes even.
Did not check operator’s manual for version and I left it out in the country, so hopefully tomorrow.

[Kaiverol]

Today I changed the oil and went to do some work with the machine. While driving through the field the unit would stall out several times. I persevered, because it would always start up after a few second wait. I checked the hand primer a few times and it was working now. At some point, within a half hour or so, the stalling stopped and the engine ran as well as I could hope. Anyone know what the cause may have been? I wondered if the transfer pump was sticking? Now that the engine is running good, I am looking forward to getting the undercarriage and steering fixed up.

[Jim B]

It is possible the transfer pump is failing. They often let fuel into the engine base and contaminate the engine oil as well, when they fail. It might not hurt to replace it, they aren't too expensive. You should check with Lavoy and see what he has for a pump.

[Kaiverol]

Today, I could not get the 350 to run more than 3 seconds. Always starts up, but shuts off right away. I sure hope it is the transfer pump. Checked the bleed screws and did get a bit of air out of the second screw.Was able to prime fuel out. Did not make a difference. Before I started unit today I added 5 gal fresh fuel. When I unscrewed fuel cap there was a big hiss, so the fuel tank had quite a vacuum on it.

Strange why yesterday I thought problem was resolved and today it is worse than ever?

I checked my operator’s manual and it has a hand written page OM-T46859 Issue E4

[B Town]

So I haven’t read the entire thread, but when you unscrew the cap and it made a hiss, made me think the tank is not vented properly. Hard for the transfer pump to overcome the negative pressure. Are 350 tanks vented under the fuel cap like the 450’s?

Try running with the cap loose. If it runs, it must be the vent.

Best regards, Bruce

[timmtnman]

I agree with BTown, just had the same problem on mine and it was the vent tube clogged up. The simplest thing to check is usually one of the last things to look at.