450C Right Brake not working

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neattouch648
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450C Right Brake not working

Post by neattouch648 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:43 am

Hello All,

I recently acquired a John Deere 450C. Its a great little crawler, but it does not steer to the right. When I pull both steering clutch levers about half-way, the crawler will stop. If I'm going up hill and pull the right lever, the crawler will slowly turn to the right. I think the steering clutches are working as they should, but the right side brake isn't.

When I pulled the seat out, I can see the lever pulling on the hydraulic steering valve. Then I can see it actuate the brake, but it actually looks like the brake lever is stuck in the pulled position. When I take a crowbar, I can essentially release the brake, but the next time I pull it, it stays back again. The left side moves back and forth freely.

I purchased the technical manual but it isn't really much help.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

dtoots1
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by dtoots1 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:30 am

sounds like rust in the mechanical operation of the levers and connecting rods....needs jb blaster or penetrant of some kind to loosen and working back and forth...also need manual on adjusting....think maybe some of these models use hydraulics etc. book should tell you...mine is jd440 o is all mechanical operation..can be ll kinds of critter nests in these things as well
primarily have to get rust broken free and lubricated so that mechanics operation is free as something is obviously sticking. then see about adjusting everything as required.

others surely will get back with more knowledge on your particular machine...be sure and get vin number handy as that tells more of what machine you actually have..

Jim B
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by Jim B » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:43 pm

Welcome to the board.

First question to me always for a "450C" is: What is the complete serial number to confirm it is truly a C series? There were 450 Cs and then there were 450Cs. Been down the road of trying to diagnose things only to find out it was the wrong C. 450 Cs and most 450Bs had dry clutches and brakes and were more prone to rusting issues. Some late 450Bs and the 450Cs had wet clutches and brakes (with automatic adjusters). So please, what is your serial number. And what is the publication number of the manual you are looking at?

neattouch648
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by neattouch648 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:59 pm

Thank y'all!
According to the plate it is: Type: 450cc Serial 237431T.
The technical manual is TM-1102 (May -87)

Thank you!

Jim B
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by Jim B » Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:18 pm

Thank you for confirming your serial number, which says it is a 1975 C series with a 6405 blade and you have the right manual. I usually ask serial numbers, as over the years many 450s have been mistakenly decaled as 450Cs and sold as such. Many folks only find out they don't have a C series when they have steering clutch troubles, with their dry clutches.

So it has wet steering clutches and brakes. No issue turning to the left I take it. Both tracks stopping with the levers pulled about half way back is a good thing, the clutches disengage. The brake adjuster might have an issue on that side. Those have automatic brake adjusters, if you hadn't found that yet in your manual. I would run through the steering and brake adjustments by the manual first. If the brake was sticking on, it should want to lock that track and turn quickly. You say it turns slowly, which I would interpret as the brake is not applying properly, so it could be just an adjustment. These steer best if the complete steering and brake adjustment procedure in the manual is followed, in order. Your manual should have a section on how to make that initial adjustment of the brakes to get the self adjuster set correctly. If a complete adjustment doesn't fix it I think you will have to go inside the steering clutch housing to find the problem. It could be a worn brake band (not real common with wet brakes), broken band or linkage, something unhook or a broken spring which might keep the adjuster from working, nothing you can see from the outside.

neattouch648
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by neattouch648 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:28 am

Thank you for your advice! I will run through the brake adjustment procedure and report back!

neattouch648
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by neattouch648 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:40 pm

Jim B wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:18 pm
Thank you for confirming your serial number, which says it is a 1975 C series with a 6405 blade and you have the right manual. I usually ask serial numbers, as over the years many 450s have been mistakenly decaled as 450Cs and sold as such. Many folks only find out they don't have a C series when they have steering clutch troubles, with their dry clutches.

So it has wet steering clutches and brakes. No issue turning to the left I take it. Both tracks stopping with the levers pulled about half way back is a good thing, the clutches disengage. The brake adjuster might have an issue on that side. Those have automatic brake adjusters, if you hadn't found that yet in your manual. I would run through the steering and brake adjustments by the manual first. If the brake was sticking on, it should want to lock that track and turn quickly. You say it turns slowly, which I would interpret as the brake is not applying properly, so it could be just an adjustment. These steer best if the complete steering and brake adjustment procedure in the manual is followed, in order. Your manual should have a section on how to make that initial adjustment of the brakes to get the self adjuster set correctly. If a complete adjustment doesn't fix it I think you will have to go inside the steering clutch housing to find the problem. It could be a worn brake band (not real common with wet brakes), broken band or linkage, something unhook or a broken spring which might keep the adjuster from working, nothing you can see from the outside.
Well,

I've tried the brake adjustment in the manual, but it is so confusing and I can't seem to get anything adjusted. According to the instructions, I should tighten the adjusting nut, but that nut barely moves. Its not really a nut as much as it is a little sprocket, so I think the only way to adjust it is with a screw driver, and I can only get it to turn two or three clicks. The instructions say "tighten adjusting nut until brakes start to pick up at 5" of level travel". I have no idea how to tell when the brakes start picking up.

I think I am going to have to pull the hydraulic reservoir and tank to pull that top cover off to look inside it. When I pull the lever back, I can see the mechanical mechanism on the outside pulling on the brake (who knows whats happening on the inside). When I release the handle, the brake mechanism doesn't move back forward, but I can easily push it back forward with a screw driver. It seems to me like something on the inside might be broken.

I should add that it was working fine and then suddenly stopped working -- so that adds to the idea that something broke.

Any other thoughts before I tear this whole thing apart?

Thanks again for all the help!

JWB Contracting
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by JWB Contracting » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:01 pm

The travel is the steering lever movement.

Are you foot brakes unlocked and moving freely?

The adjuster nut is like old school drum brakes with an auto adjuster. The adjuster should move easily, nothing to rust up as the cavity has oil in it.
Jason Benesch

John Deere 420, 430, 440 & 350C With 3 Point Hitch
John Deere 400G With Winch
John Deere 2010 Crawler Dozer
John Deere 420, 430, 435 & 440 Wheel Tractors

neattouch648
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by neattouch648 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:12 am

JWB Contracting wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:01 pm
The travel is the steering lever movement.

Are you foot brakes unlocked and moving freely?

The adjuster nut is like old school drum brakes with an auto adjuster. The adjuster should move easily, nothing to rust up as the cavity has oil in it.
Thanks for being so responsive! I really appreciate the help/advice.

The foot brake is unlocked. It moves freely but not well. It doesn't return all the way to the released position without a bit of help.

Nothing inside looks rusty and the oil looks good. Could it be that the adjuster is already as tight as it can go? Maybe the band ripped or broke off and thats why there is no brake and the adjuster would be as tight as it can go.

neattouch648
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Re: 450C Right Brake not working

Post by neattouch648 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:20 pm

I took everything apart and it all looks good. Nothing broken or even worn looking. I did realize that the pickup levers by the steering arms were getting stuck. I took them apart and cleaned them up. They move freely now. The instructions for adjusting the brakes are super confusing. It wants me to:
1. tighten adjusting nut so brakes start to pick up at 5in.

Does that mean have someone hold the lever at 5 inches and then tighten the screw until its hard to turn?

2. screw brake lever stop screw in two turns and then apparently start backing them out in quarter turns until you can see that the adjusting link picks up the adjusting nut, right?

Thanks!

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