Straight 450 Engine Oil Milky

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cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: Straight 450 Engine Oil Milky

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:21 pm

Tried calling 3 different JD dealers... no dice on a "kit", they all say the parts need to be ordered separately and even with a military discount, it came to a total of $1,420 (ouch). That's a hard pill to swallow, especially knowing I'm selling this 450 to support my 450B project... ugh

Ok, so I just heard back from a few of my parts dealers while I was writing this...

First guy:
He is using his connections to try cross reference the casting number on the engine block (by the oil filter, "T 23406 T") and his connections are telling him that the number lines up to a 4-202 not a 4-219 and that I need to verify the bore size to know which engine I have so that I can order the right rebuild kit (he gave me the two bore sizes). This makes sense and although I haven't looked up the part number differences, my problem may be a simple as me putting the wrong head gasket on there thinking it was a 4-219 (if it does indeed turn out to be a 4-202, then I put a 4-219 head gasket on a 4-202). In my defense, the head gasket I put on there lined up and everything looked right.

Second guy:
He is saying that the pistons and other parts I start pulling out of there will have part numbers on them and will tell me which kit I need to go with.

So I now fully understand that I need to tear it down first, then order parts, then put it all back together... not the order I like doing these kinds of things in, but nothing I can really do about it. I do have a large barn I can use to do the rebuild in and stay dry but I'll have to drive it a few hundred yards. The plan is to fill her back up with oil but leave the radiator drained, putt down to the barn and start tearing into her. I don't see the point in running coolant in there if it's all just going to go right into the crankcase. Can anyone think of a reason why running no coolant for a few hundred yards is a bad idea, like it would mess up something else that I'm not thinking of that isn't already going to replaced during the in-frame rebuild?

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: Straight 450 Engine Oil Milky

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:08 am

jbloam,

I appreciate the offer but once shipped here and then back, I'm halfway to having my own puller which I may need for my 450B one day or other equipment. Thanks for the offer though.

I got it all put back together (I had it torn apart to do the head gasket job again) now running to town for oil so I can fill it up and run it down to the barn. Will be a waste of good oil but I just can't bring myself to put emulsified oil in it, even for the short run to the barn... with my luck, something even worse would go wrong, ha.

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: Straight 450 Engine Oil Milky

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:50 pm

Got her moved down to the barn and all situated. All interference removed, head unbolted and propped up to take bore measurement...

Verified: Block casting is T23406 + bore size 3.858 = JD 4-202, guess this dozer is earlier than I thought...Mid 60's maybe.

Sleeve puller in route. Draining & disconnecting hoses to pull oil pan tomorrow. This should prove to be interesting.

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: Straight 450 Engine Oil Milky

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:35 am

Update (and question at the end):

Removed all interference for the head removal and removed head.

Finally got the Hydraulic piping disconnected so I could access the oil pan bolts on the right side... a note on that, I debated whether or not to remove the cowl... I would advise just removing it, it'll save you the headache in the end. If you don't have other tractors, dozers or gantry available to you but you have a loader with the bucket in the air resting on stout maintenance braces, you can always use a chainfall/hoist off of your loader's main crossmember to lift the cowl off.

Once I got that idiodically designed hyd pipe out of the way I could finally remove the oil pan and get my first look inside. While emptying the residual coolant/oil mix out of the pan I found one orange o-ring. For me this was a good sign, I could at least identify the main culprit of coolant infiltrating my crankcase (so I thought). I then removed the connecting rod caps and pushed out the old pistons.

Next was the measuring... The piston sizes were a little under and the clearances were also out of spec so a kit is in order. I then bagged everything to tackle it in the morning.

This morning was sleeve pulling time, the puller I ordered off eBay worked perfectly... The seller is "mrnelms8888", just type in "Automotive or Tractor cylinder crank in sleeve / liner puller".

I've never pulled sleeves myself before so I didn't really know what to expect regarding condition but the sleeves themselves were thickly caked up with a hard substance, like petrified coolant sludge and only one of the main orange o-rings was still intact. The funny thing was that all 4 sleeves had their o-rings (albeit bad condition) but they were all there which means the O-ring I found in the oil pan had to have been from a previous re-build. That's about par for the course on this machine regarding previous owners. BTW, turns out my engine is the "early 4.202, with the O-rings on the sleeves, vise the "late" model with O-rings in the block.

The question I have is this... I have seen diesel "in-frame" rebuilds online where they replace the main bearings as well (just pull the main bearing caps and roll the old upper bearings out and slide new ones in). Is that possible on this engine? If so, will I be able to replace the thrust bearing also or are there certain bearings that can't be replaced without removing the crankshaft?

Also, I know most kits come with new connecting rod bolts so that's a no-brainer but are the head bolts on these engines supposed to be re-used? I know on some engines, you aren't supposed to re-used them but not sure for the 4.202 (they are not included with any of the kits I've seen online). I did re-use them on the preliminary head gasket replacement with no issue, just curious if someone out there knows for sure.

I can't wait for this to be buttoned up so I can jump back on the 450B project, getting ready to pull the steering clutches on her!

cordlesscarpenter
1010 crawler
1010 crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 pm
Location: Southeast Indiana

Re: Straight 450 Engine Oil Milky

Post by cordlesscarpenter » Mon May 10, 2021 2:07 pm

Update:

I finished up the rebuild, got her all buttoned up and she fired right up with ease! a few clutch adjustments later and she's back in business cutting dirt like a champ. Now it's back to my 450B project... woohoo!

If anyone has any questions about this process I'd be happy to answer, best I can anyhow.

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