'73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

[cordlesscarpenter]

Made the trip to NY without a hitch, swapped engines and picked up a bunch more drastically needed parts to continue the build. On the way back I also picked up an entire new wiring harness for the beast.

So as you all know, I decided to rebuild the engine, it just isn't worth it for me to put all the time and money into the restoration of the entire machine just to toss in an essentially "unknown" engine. With everything else I have going on here, I felt it best to have the engine rebuilt by my local shop, the guys that will be working it have not only done a bunch of 4219s in the recent past, they do good work and at a super fair price. It would have gone to his shop for certain work anyways so why not just have him do the whole thing start to finish. This way I'll have more time to focus on the rest of the machine plus I can have all the professional things done to it such as hot tank'd, magnaflux the block and head, check and machine the head and block if necessary, valve job (or at least seats, new valve guides and maybe valves and rods, etc.) I'll know what the crank and cam mic out to and know whether they are gtg or need to be ground and know which bearings to order. It'll also get a new paint job as it goes together... Ya know, it'll get "the goods".

One last piece to the puzzle is the system piping for the steering assist coming from the aux pump on the front of the engine. The salvage yard I just came from in NY had a machine that had the entire system intact and still attached to another engine (which they have earmarked for me in the event that the engine I got from them had a cracked block or some other non recoverable issue (it should be all gtg though). Anyways, they are going to pull that system and have it shipped down along with the hydraulic pump, fittings and a few other parts.

It was a long run but well worth it in the end I feel.

I have already begun the paint prep on the main body of the machine and hoping the weather cooperates with me enough to get it painted before Christmas... this is taking WAY too long. I have the machine sitting in a makeshift tent of sorts outside that I can heat so temperature for painting won't be a problem but I am still bound by humidity levels, since the main body is such a large piece to properly prep for paint, I must do the prep in sections... basically do all I can in one day and then acetone it real good and prime it. If I wait untilo I get the whole body prepped, the places where I started would have flash rusted on me and it would be a never ending battle. This way it is all getting prepped, primed over the course of the month and then once done I will shoot it all Old Construction Yellow in one day.

Wishing all of you a Happy Thanksgiving!

[B Town]

Sounds like a very productive trip. Would you tell me more about your new wiring harness. I have a short in my harness and would be interested in a source for a replacement.

Thank you, Bruce

[cordlesscarpenter]

Hey Bruce, I got the wiring harness through Agri-Services out of Alden, NY. The website is https://www.wiringharnesses.com just click on their harness catalog and go from there. His name is Jim, you simply tell him what you need and he builds all the different harnesses you need to your specs. He'll need some other machine/engine/alternator/etc. details too. He's pretty quick and prices are fair. He's a good ol' country boy for sure.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Been able to make some decent progress... Dropped off the engine at my local shop for the full rebuild, It will be nice to have the confidence a fresh full overhauled engine will surely give.

I was procrastinating on taking the boom hyd cylinders and upper support arms off the main body but finally got those off, cleaned up really well and got them sprayed out this morning (it was in the 60s today so I took advantage), the painting isn't over yet but I can see the light at the end of the paint tunnel.

I've also been working on getting all my hydraulic hoses made, been taking them to a another local shop about 4-6 at a time. The hoses for the boom cylinders that connect inside the big stanchion pockets (where the cylinder attaches to the body) are testing my patience for sure... the only tool that seems to be manageable (and barely) is a crows foot, if I can get it up there. My largest crows foot is 1" so I ordered a set of larger ones which should be here mid next week. Just when you think you have every tool imaginable life reminds you otherwise.

Lastly, the rigth side undercarriage and final drive assembly have been fully wire wheeled, thoroughly cleaned and primed. I'll be working on the rest of the right side of the body tomorrow as well as looking at prepping a bunch of the pieces I got from the NY trip in hopes I get another nice warm paint day soon, or else they will get prepped and shot in the tent when I shoot the main body.

Speaking of painting, I'm still brand new to the cup gun world and was having a huge issue with my cup gun acting up on me randomly... it would be spraying fine and then all the sudden it would feel as though I turned the air to 25% and reduced the paint volume at the same time (SUPER aggrivating). First I thought it was just because the air compressor was cycling, then I thought it was water from the tank and in the lines but then I found the culprit (100% positive this time). The cup that holds the paint was creating a vacuum as I laid on paint and then when it could no longer breathe it would choke out and act like crap. Problem solved by simply opening the cap and burping the vacuum. I would drill a small vent hole in the cap but it's not my gun so burping it is, just glad I got it all figured out before I did the main body, bucket and hoe... not to mention a full mask and shoot on my IH TD-8E in the spring.

Cheers!

[cordlesscarpenter]

I've been making huge progress on wire wheeling, sanding, cleaning and priming the main body... hope to be spraying it yellow in about 10 days or so, should make for a great Christmas present to myself. I have also been getting all the hydraulic hoses built in sections and now have all the hoses for the crawler done and working on the hoe hoses. The engine is still in progress and parts are still rolling in. Things are looking good for re-assembly starting in the new year.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Ok, I have a few quandaries I need y'alls help with...

Problem #1:

The crossmember can be seen here: https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sid ... gId/212797

This has to do with where the track frames bolt up to the front crossmember. Each side (each track frame) has 6 bolts which all feed through a flanged bushing/spacers (4 vertical and 2 horizontal), I was lucky enough that all bolts on both sides (total of 12 bolts) were loosened up and removed without breaking. Unfortunately out of the 10 bolts that fasten that same front crossmember to the tractor frame rails, 6 of them had snapped off (got the machine like that). I removed all of the flanged bushings/spacers, wire wheeled them and shot them with some primer and decided to go ahead and replace all 22 bolts with new grade 8 hardware, which is done (all anti-seized by the way). The problem is this... when I tightened up all the bolts I was faced with 3/16" gap where the front crossmember meets the track frame (both horizontal and vertical surfaces). Normally you might not notice this gap with the machine sitting in it's normal operating state because the weight of the machine would be sitting on the track frame and the gap would show up between the bottom of the flanged bushing/spacer and the spot-face of the crossmember. However, with the machine sitting on jack stands and the weight of the track frames hanging from the bolts, at full torque, you can still move the track frame both up and down as well as side to side by hand. Being an engineer my whole career, when I come across a situation like this that I don't understand, I like to believe the manufacturer must have designed it like this for a reason but I can't think of a good one and it makes absolutely no sense to me the way it is. The garage mechanic in me is fighting the urge to grind the bottom of the spacers off so that when I bolt it up, the crossmember and the track frame mate like one would think. Other people I know have seen this gap on their 450s but three other 450s I've seen recently, including my previous 450 had the track frame solidly welded to the crossmember. If I leave it the way it is, 100% of the torque is essentially applied to and squeezing the spacer/bushing and leaves the track frame free to float around in the 3/16" slack space. Does this make any sense to any of you out there? I have thought about buying one new spacer from JD to see if perhaps the existing spacers had been swapped out in the past with the wrong part (and would explain all the other broken bolts), this way I would know if they are correct before I spent the $$ on all new spacers ($25 a piece) and would possibly solve the mystery. Anyone have thoughts or experience with this?

Problem 2:
So as you know, I swapped engines and now have a 4219 with the correct auxiliary hydraulic pump on the front of the engine that supports the "power steering" cylinders under the seat but the engine did not come with any of the plumbing to support the system. While up in NY swapping engines, they had another machine with the same engine that had the earlier version plumbing with the hyd oil reservoir but I believe my machine (1973) has the "later" plumbing system which utilized the transmission oil cooler in place of the reservoir. On my machine I have fittings going to and from a component at the top of the front right side of the transmission which is why I believe I have this "later" system. Can these two systems be married somehow? I'm having the salvage yard in NY strip and send me all the plumbing for that other system just in case it would work but hoping someone out there has already dealt with this issue and has some advise??

Almost done with the wire wheeling and priming the main body, should be yellow very soon AND I swung by the machine shop and the engine is coming along nicely (regarding the rebuild), the engine was broke down, hot tanked, and ready for assembly. The crank mic'd out good so no grinding time delay there but the injection pump is still at the pump shop. He said if the pump comes back soon it should be done shortly after the new year!

Early Merry Christmas everyone!

[JWB Contracting]

On my own personal 350C I had the local machine shop build oversized bushings as the vertical mounting holes were showing some wear. From there I ground the bottom side of the bushings until I had a snug fit.

The majority of frame problems on 350 and 450 Crawlers is a result of loose front cross members, either to the frame or track frames. My dad’s working machines were widepads with a steel front crossmember. We used oversized new bolts with the heads welded to the cross member to keep them from coming loose, plus welded the cross member to the track frames. When we started doing these we no longer had frame or reverser mounting bolt issues.

Now my dad at 76 is turning out 1-2 Crawler rebuilds a month and most of the older Deere’s have the same loose crossmember issues, worn rear round shaft and broken frame sections. When they leave they don’t.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Hi Jason, I too see a lot of wallowing out of the front crossmember's through holes, I'll measure them and see if there is any consistency. I think like you do, I started out as a machinist but now that I'm retired I no longer have access to a shop, luckily I have a few local machine shops nearby that are willing to help with the smaller jobs. Wish I had a lathe, these would be a whole lot cheaper haha. At least I know how to draw up what they'll need to make them.

You mentioned "reverser mounting bolts", are those common failures too? Should I look at replacing them? Sure don't want that dropping out! If you can think of any other common failure points that you or your dad have run into during rebuilds, please let me know, it would sure help save a few big headaches.

Although tearing a machine down this far, rebuilding, inspecting, preparing and painting everything along the way is a looooooong drawn out process that requires a ton of dedication and commitment, one thing you do walk away with is knowledge... you know every little thing about every system, where every bolt is, all the strengths & weaknesses and you know exactly what it takes to make certain repairs, how long it will roughly take, what parts to buy and how much it will hurt the wallet.

[JWB Contracting]

For a 350 the bolts that hold the reverser to the frame are always a problem. In your case with a 450, it would the the bell housing bolts to frame.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Update:

It feels as though the prep and painting is never going to end but I do see the light at the end of the tunnel. I finally finished prep and prime on the entire main body so it is ready to paint JD-OCY. The last piece of the paint puzzle (besides the backhoe and 4-1 bucket) is all the hard hydraulic lines (ever single one of them on the machine) need to be prepped on the outside, pressure washed on the inside and then plugged. Then all the little pieces, hyd lines and main body will be shot at the same time. Prep of the body took so much longer than expected because of all the nooks and crannies but it's done.

Also before paint, I need to weld on the new wear strips for the front idler but I need to mock them up first as the wear strips I received are much thicker than the ones I ground off. I did end up purchasing a generator welder so welding it up won't be a problem. In case you were wondering, there are specific directions in the manual for welding these strips on. I thought it would be self explanatory but they do give some important information in the manual that was helpful for a successful weld/instal.

I got my fully rebuilt 4.219 NA engine back from the machine shop (injection pump fully rebuilt as well with 4 new injectors), so it is ready to go in directly after paint.

I spoke about this before but... on the 450B models, concerning the steering assist hydraulic system, there are two different systems during the 4 or so years they built the B model. The first system used a hyd oil reservoir sitting on top of the valve cover and the second system used in the later model B's used the transmission oil cooler as the reservoir. I apparently had the second system originally which makes sense because my machine is a 1973 model but all I can find is the early version (regarding replacement parts). I am asking... is there anyone out there who has these parts or knows where I can find these parts? I essentially need ALL the plumbing in front of the firewall. I know it's a long shot but perhaps there is a guy that has a late model 450B sitting in his barn that he's parting out whatnot that can help... fingers crossed . My last resort is to figure out the routing and build everything from scratch. ugh

All the parts and pieces I picked up on my NY run have also been prepped and are ready for paint.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Finally got the new front idler wear plates welded on and looking good, everything cleaned up and re-primer'd.

Getting set up for the main paint day within the week... this is taking way too long but hopefully once I get it all painted and assembly begins, things start progressing much more quickly.

Anyone have any ideas on how to address the power assist hydraulic lines I spoke about in my last posting? Stumped on how to move forward on this part for the moment.

CHEERS!

[cordlesscarpenter]

I started laying down the yellow yesterday on the main body and boy is it gratifying! She still needs a few more coats which I'll get sprayed out today and tomorrow but I wanted to share a quick lesson I learned a long time ago that was re-enforced by the 450C Near Death Accident thread on this forum.

I'll start by explaining how I'm painting a crawler in the dead of winter with snow on the ground. Basically, where I live, my buddy has a shipping container in the side yard and two mature trees about 15' away from the container and 15' away from each other. Last winter about this time I milled up some lumber and threw together a roof between all three, nailed some metal roofing on it and stapled heavy duty plastic to the three sides (container being the 4th) and flared them out. This allows me to keep the machine dry all year long and I can heat the space with a big kerosene salamander.

Two nights ago I woke up with a pit in my stomach and two thoughts racing through my mind... 1.) will my big beard prevent my paint respirator from sealing properly and 2.) what is going to happen when the shack is full of atomized paint & fumes and the open flame salamander kicks on??? I thought back to the 450C NDA story and thought, I don't need to add a 450B NDA thread to the forum. That little voice kept screaming at me all morning that it was a bad idea to spray and I've learned to listen to that voice over the years so I decided I'll go ahead and start laying it on the belly of the machine with a brush instead with good ventilation. Well, brushing it on looked like crap frankly and put me in a terrible position where I couldn't see what I was doing nor would I be able to hold that position for the duration of the amount of paint that needed to be applied. I then realized that the sun had come out and started heating the shack like a greenhouse (only dry) and the heater hadn't turned on once in the past hour or more. That's when I decided to unplug the heater, add the thinner to the paint, put it in the cup gun and go to town.

So in the end it worked out and today and tomorrow are suppose to be even warmer than yesterday. Between the respirator and the paint hood I was wearing, I couldn't even tell I was painting, it sealed up great and the respirator did its job well and of course the heater was a non-issue. Keeping the metal and air above 50* and the humidity below 65% is the key and I was able to achieve all that and the paint job is turning out great.

[yellowcrawler]

Good to hear that you are making progress and sharing your thoughts about safety!

[cordlesscarpenter]

Assembly has officially begun... So far I have mounted all 10 new lower rollers, both sprockets, both sprocket weights, both new front idlers (with all shims and wear bars), and all 4 rock guards. Everything was mounted with new grade 8 hardware except the long carriage style bolts that go between the rock guards through the spacers, those are grade 5 (galvanized) because it was the highest grade I could get with the best protection through Fastenal. The old spacers I removed in the beginning were completely rusted out and the bolts looked horrible too), a few of the spacers had actually split down the middle. What I ended up doing, instead of paying $55.00ea for OEM spacers, I ordered an 84" stick of schedule 80, 3/4" steel pipe for $30 and cut 10 sections at 7-7/16" long giving me the exact same product for $3.00ea . I primed and painted them black then installed bolts through (covered in grease) and tightened everything up. I also removed the upper carrier roller supports, today's task is to press the old shafts out of the uprights and press the new shafts in, slide the new seals and rollers on and set them aside for now (giving me more room for running piping and wiring). Today is also a day for paint prep, I've got to tarp the machine and hang ALL the piping (hydraulic, transmission, fuel, etc.) as well as get all the little odds and ends pieces acetone'd and ready for paint tomorrow (radiator pump support, intake filtration, throttle mechanism, etc.).

My new hydraulic pump should arrive today and I also got the grill, gauge dash, radiator access cover, hyd pump's drive/disco and a few other little parts primed and painted black. After painting tomorrow I'll be installing the track adjuster with new pistons and seals, then it's on to hyd & battery boxes and piping (not looking forward to that monkey show). My flywheel is in the shop getting re-surfaced for the new clutch and pressure plate so once it's done I'll be adjusting and installing that onto the engine and stabbing the engine in place. So much to do and I plan on being out of here in 10 weeks!

BTW, if you're like me and can't find grade 8, 9/16 lock washers ANYWHERE, 14mm will fit perfectly.

[yellowcrawler]

Any pictures?