'73 - 450B Crawler/Loader/Hoe Restoration

[Lavoy]

I would assume 8 gauge, if not 6. IF you are ever going to pull that many amps continuously out of it.
lavoy

[DrLoch]

Here's link to some that have do the conversion and what they went thru. ; http://www.jdcrawlers.com/messageboard/ ... php?t=5850

The big thing is to change the pulley to get the correct belt width not necessarily the diameter. It's gotta fit a 5/8" Belt, not 1.2" belt. Sorry bout the guy @ alternatorparts.com....... That's why I generally don't get into the recommendation thing, what works for one may not work for another.

[cordlesscarpenter]

DrLoch, thanks for the link to the discussion, I'll definitely give it a read. On the recommendation, I totally understand your stance and it wasn't like he was a jackass or anything, he just wasn't my guy. He did start me down the right path and I just might go with one of their alternators in the end since they are new (not refurb), no core required (I guess I could send them a blob of metal lol) and I believe made here in the USA (big + in my book).

Lavoy, thanks for the info on wire size. I'll likely never draw that much but I tend to lean on the side of caution and go beefier on everything I do.

Over the past few days I connected all the hydraulic lines under the seat, emptied and pressure washed the fuel tank and lifted her into position. Got it bolted to both side boxes and mounted the front bracket to the front of the boxes, shimmied everything just right and bolted everything down good and solid. So good to be at this point. I Also ran and connected the fuel supply and return lines and bracketed those down nicely.

I found a line that should work to finish the run run of supply fuel to the lift pump, just need to tweak it here and there to squeak it by the filter assembly.

I also received the wire mesh filter for the hyd tank, installed both it and the micron filter and buttoned up the tank.

Received the OEM blower fan and installed it.

The proper glass fuel sediment bowl is on its way.

Working all the tower hyd lines now alongside the last fuel line and many other parts such as air intake and radiator/cooler, shroud, etc.

it's coming together!

[cordlesscarpenter]

Update,

I chose to go with the original exhaust manifold as it was still in really good shape considering it was in a fire, at least a lot better than what came on the engine, that's kinda what they are designed for though so it's not too surprising. I media blasted it, wire wheeled it and lapped the ports that meet up with the head, now just waiting for new exh. gaskets and a good day to paint, looks like Wednesday will be the winner.

I have completed plumbing the supply lines to the hyd pump and will be finishing up the pressurized return lines today.

Bolted the new rad and trans cooler together and mocked it up in place... upper rad bracket needs some adjusting to line up with the mounting holes in the radiator but not a huge deal, just would have been nice if it all lined up like it should ugh.

Ran the trans cooler supply and return lines and realized the cooler return line I bought was missing the all important nipple that T's off to supply the power steering pump. So I either need to find the correct line with nipple (ideal), braze a nipple into the old line (and risk ruining the pipe in the process) or tap into it on the front side of the cooler where it's hose... or l could wack the return line off there on the back side of the cooler, in line with the PS pump and run a longer hose from the filter outlet to the return line and tap into it on the back side of the cooler.

Still deciding how I'm gonna get around the issue I have with missing the power steering pump supply and relief lines and needed to have the alternator in place to see if I can even use hose there. It's tight quarters for sure, with moving parts everywhere which I assume is the reason they used short hard lines that barb to hose. I might have a shot using hose if I incorporate a 90* JIC fitting or two in the right spots, We'll see.

Speaking of alternators, I decided to go with the Delco-Remy alternator 10si, 12v, 63 amp 1-wire alternator from NAPA. The reason I went that route was 2 main reasons, they have a lifetime warranty and NAPA is the only auto parts store within a 2 hours driving radius of my future home. Of course it comes with the wrong pulley and they don't sell a pulley with the dimensions I need to keep the stock belt length (3.750 OD, 5/8 bore for the shaft and 5/8 belt width) so I'm looking for one online. I realize that a larger diameter pulley will essentially turn the alternator slower and with a low RPM machine I will likely have to give 'er the onion to get it to excite but I'm told once they are excited, they stay excited, just gotta make sure I can even excite it at full throttle and I should be gtg.

Finished off fuel supply and return, just waiting for the sediment bowl to get here from the UK to finish off the filter assembly and that will be one system complete.

With the help of a buddy, we got all the left tower hydraulics lines in. One of the bracket studs broke off during disassembly so I had to weld in a new stud in which took 2 tries to get the placement and angle correct but it is done, now moving on to the other side.
*NOTE when you connect the lines in the tower, they not only need to come out in a specific order, they consequently need to go back in a certain order AND the cylinder flex hoses need to stay attached to the hard lines for removal AND be connected for instal or you'll be cussing yourself and wiping off all the pipe dope you just put on when it dawned on you... ask me how I know .

Bolted up the seat bracket and seat back, will be bolting up the arm rests and flopping in the seat today so I have somewhere to sit while wiring up the dash.

Re-installed the Air cleaner with filters as well as the pre-cleaner. For the intake hose, I will be cannibalizing one of the 450 straight intake hoses I have, flipping it 180* and I bought (2) 2.125" I.D. exhaust connectors from Orielly's ($5 ea) along with two silicone turbo couplers ($6 ea) with 2.250" ID on one end to fit over the exhaust connectors and 2.5" ID on the other end to fit on the intake manifold and air cleaner's outlet. That should do the trick and allow me to save $175. I'll also be cleaning all the old paint and gook off the intake hose and plasti-dipping the whole hose once it's assembled so it doesn't look like poo.

Well, that's already too much writing and not enough wrench turning... sorry my posts are so long, just trying to document the process and the headaches along the way, hopefully it help some other out in the future.

[B Town]

Nice progress. Keep it up!

[cordlesscarpenter]

Thanks B Town!

Got everything ready to hook up hyd lines (pressure side) but didn't solidify the connection because I have to take everything down that is loosely mocked up in front so I can hook up those last two lines to the power steering pump and put the belt on so the hyd pump is coming off, no reason to hook up the high side.

I did get the rest of the seat and arm rests mounted today

Installed the floorboards (until I start wiring everything up)

Mounted the Dash and oh so sweet it looks!

Mocked up the alternator

Ran the tubing for radiator relief as well as the tubing for the power steering relief

Ran and connected the long hyd lines for the 4-in-1 bucket as well as the backhoe hoses with quick discos

Got my exhaust manifold gaskets and part of my Frankenstein air inlet hose, the rest should be here Monday

Ordered more parts

I'm pooped.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Didn't get a whole lot done today, tweaked my back this morning while exercising... not cool

So I figured I'd take it easy on myself today and made the wood base for the tool caddy in the battery box. I think the original was made out of 3/8" plywood and a few cleats here and there to keep it in place. Mine looks similar but I made mine out of some 1/2" walnut I had laying around and ash cleats, one cleat on the bottom to keep it in place inside the battery box and a cleat in front and behind the caddy itself to keep it from moving around.

I also cut out some rubber matting to line the bottom of the caddy as well as the little tray in the hydraulic with holes cut out around the bolt & nuts.

I also did a bunch of measuring to order and instal T-bolt hose clamps throughout the machine, I have a ton of worm gear clamps but they keep failing on me while I'm tightening (and I'm not muscling them).

I am still having no luck with the 2 hard lines for the power steering pump (relief and supply) so I decided I'd buy a tubing bender and the right fittings and build them myself. I've never done this before but I've done stuff like this for over 30 years so it's well within my capabilities and why not... I need to get moving forward on these lines because now it's holding me up.

Cheers fellow crawlers !

[cordlesscarpenter]

Now that about 75% of the tractor & loader hydraulics are connected, I finally find a good place that can make new piping however you need it (G.E.I. Fluid Power in Milan, IN).

First I went to NAPA to grab some line and fittings to build my own but they only had fittings, no line... "who around here has line? " "GEI Fluid Power up in Milan". Of course it's always best to have an example (usually the original) to make a new line from but in the case of the two power steering lines, they were roached and only partially there to begin with. I'm not having them make the lines since they need something to go off of, I'm going to build them myself like I planned but I need to go there to get the materials and a good bender. I believe they are JIC connections but I'm not 100% positive so I need to figure that out before I go because if they are JIC I'll also need a JIC flaring tool, apparently all the flaring tools I have kicking around here and all they sell at the hardware stores are all 45* not 37* JIC. Good news is they are only about 40 minutes away, I cut off what was left of the old supply line from the burnt engine and will take line that I know fits the relief line, this way I know I'm getting the correct line and fittings. I'll be headed up there tomorrow, hopefully I return with everything I need to build these lines so I can move forward, it is literally holding up progress now.

[Andy B]

If you ever come up with a photo album of all this, let me know the link. I would love to see the process.

[cordlesscarpenter]

Finally found a pulley on eBay with the stock dimensions to fit on the Delco-Remy 1-wire and ordered it for 1/3 the price of the OEM stamped steel pulley.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/272255881613

OD: 95mm (3-3/4")
Bore: 17mm 0.669" (shaft actually measures 0.668")
Groove width: 16mm (5/8")

Of course I haven't put it on yet but it all looks right, the only unknown is the width so we'll see... I'll keep y'all posted. I'm due for some good news lol

[cordlesscarpenter]

If you ever come up with a photo album of all this, let me know the link. I would love to see the process.

Anyone who wants photos, just PM me your email and I'd be glad to share!

[cordlesscarpenter]

Got my hands on all the fittings and tube I needed for the 2 remaining lines I need to build to finish off the power steering system. They didn't sell any of the tools I needed so I purchased a 3 head hand tubing bender (imperial 370-FH) which will bend 1/4", 3/8" & 1/2" tubing. They want ridiculous money for the nice Swagelok benders and I just can't justify that purchase for only bending a few lines. To get the 2 Swagelok benders I would need, you're looking at a price tag of around $830 new or about half that used. I paid $53 total for my bender and should have the lines built this weekend. Since all my flare tooling is 45*, I had them cut me a 5' stick of 1/4" tube and 5' stick of 1/2" tubing with JIC (37*) flares on both ends. Since I only need about 2 feet for each run and each run has a hose connected to the other end, it gives me enough for 2 attempts at each line once I cut each stick in half.

I Received my fuel sediment bowl today and installed it, so fuel system is now 100% complete! Unless I decide to make a cleaner run of fuel line to the lift pump... it looks "ok" now and would be perfectly fine but I'll have extra 1/4" line and the guys at the fluid power shop said you can use 45* flaring tool on all sizes except 2 (need to figure out which ones those are lol). Plus I have a bunch of 1/4" salvage line laying around with straight sections long enough for that short run that I can play with.

Also received my reducer couplers for the intake and after some fab work was able to get it mocked up... it will work! So, if you need a late 450B or 450C intake hose and don't want to pay $200 for it, you can use a 450 straight's intake hose flipped around with a 2.250 x 2.500 reducer coupler (for turbo systems), one on either end, joined together with 2-1/8" exhaust connectors (all together about 1/10 the JD price, assuming you already have a 450 intake hose). You'll have to cut a few inches off the down tube to the intake though (hacksaw works good for this)

Tomorrow is another paint day, I'll be shooting the exhaust manifold along with the brake lock and exhaust clamp and maybe a few other odds and ends

I also ordered some 1/8" silicone (and PVC) tubing to finish off my ether injection system, I'll share which one I decide to go with.

[cordlesscarpenter]

I'll start by saying it again, if anyone wants to see some photos of the process, PM me your address and I'd be happy to share. So many of you have help me out tremendously in one way or another, that's the least I can do.

Despite the 40 mph winds, I was able to get the exhaust manifold & clamp painted and the modified intake hose plasti-dip'd. All turned out really nice and I'm sure the manifold will smell fantastic for the first few days lol. In case anyone was curious how to get 50 years of bad paint jobs off your hoses, an orbital sander with 80 grit was the most efficient route I found and it turned out nice enough to use without plasti-dipping, I just did it because why not .

Bolted up the starter today and man, that went a whole lot easier then any other starter I've ever put into a 450 or any other crawler for that matter. The trick for me was to use a 3/8" ratchet, 3/8" extension (long one) with a 3/8" down to 1/4" drive adapter and a wiggler style 1/4" drive 9/16" socket. That alone won't get you there though... the trick is to use steeper angles to get the socket on the nut (top) and bolt (bottom), then you can straighten out a little and get full torque applied. I share this because it has always been SUPER challenging to do this and most end up cannibalizing a wrench or two by cutting/bending/contorting it to get it in there, especially through that ridiculous access hole they cut into the frame rail.

Tossed both batteries in place as well (couple NAPA Commercial batts), I needed to make sure my old parallel jumper would work and take measurements for new cable. I ended up going with 1/0 cable and connectors (build your own style) from https://www.batterycablesusa.com , easy site to navigate and get what you need.

Got all my T-bolt hose clamps ordered today too. I've always used gear style clamps in the past but for hoses that are jumper hoses for hyd and trans, I felt more comfortable using the best, I am not a fan of crawling in the mud to take off a belly pan in the middle of winter because a hose blew off. and I figured what the hell, I'll just go T-bolt for every clamp on the machine.

Dreading buying the muffler... John Deere wants $900 for OEM and Finney has one aftermarket for $650. Lavoy, you don't have any new or like new AT19157s kicking around do you?

I'm dying to get that bender and try my hand at making those two lines. The pump relief should be fairly easy for a rookie like me but the pump supply is a different story... I'm gonna give it my best shot but if I don't get it in the first try, I'll take it back to the boys at GEI and have them bend 'er up for me. At least I now have a way forward on that piece, that's a big relief. Then I'll be ready finish off the front end, finish wiring (I started today) and bring the ol' girl back to life!

[Lavoy]

Nothing I have, sorry.
Lavoy

[B Town]

? $900/$650 muffler? I thought the exhaust was a manifold to an elbow to an extension then a straight pipe.

I now see the AT 19157 part in the online Deere part catalog. Your crawler is a non-turbo, wish I could help you.